Dr. Adam Nally rants against long fasting, Dr. Fung


#1

I follow just a few gurus, and one of them is Dr. Adam Nally. He has often mentioned he is not a fan of fasting except that which occurs naturally as a result of satiety with the ketogenic diet. Last evening he did a Facebook live where he explained in detail why he believes it is dangerous without medical supervision, and even criticized Dr. Jason Fung for making autophagy a “fad.” It is certainly a different perspective on things.


(Erin Macfarland ) #2

I think extended fasting for long periods can possibly cause some physiological issues. I don’t think this is addressed because many people unquestioningly accept that fasting fixes every health issue. I think it can be very helpful, especially IF. But as someone recovering from anorexia, I understand how starvation affects our physiological well being. And you can call it what you want but fasting is absolutely a form of starvation even if you have plenty of body fat to provide energy. Your body is still receiving the signal that there is no energy available in your environment and it has to draw down its energy stores. It doesn’t know you’re “fasting” it just knows there’s no food around. And this is a stressful situation if done for an extended period of time. I’m gonna risk some pushback here by saying this, I’m sure. But the mental effects of starvation are quite serious. I feel like telling people to do extended fasts for many months or years on end is not sustainable and could lead to disordered behaviors around food. I like Dr. Fung but I worry too many take his advice without considering their personal physiology or the psychological effects of doing long fasts. I know he’s very clear that people need to follow a fasting protocol that fits their lives and that they should be flexible. But I don’t think there’s enough attention being drawn to how longer fasts can cause these kinds of issues.


(Allie) #3

I agree Erin. I’ve only been using fasting for the last few weeks and am doing OK with it, but have to constantly check myself as to WHY I’m doing it as I did have some disordered eating in teenage years which resulted in me being very strict / restrictive with food intake. It wasn’t anorexia as I never thought I was overweight, in fact I knew I wasn’t, it was simply the only thing I could control in those horrifically dangerous years of my life.

The longest fast I’ve done is 48 hours and I stopped there as I could feel old habits threatening to bite me.


(Erin Macfarland ) #4

That’s very observant @Shortstuff. Anorexia and other eating disorders are genetically based mental illnesses, and not something someone chooses contrary to popular belief. They can affect ANYONE of ANY size. So categorically prescribing fasting for everyone who is “overweight “ can result in triggering an eating disorder. It is not true that only those who are under weight can have anorexia. People in larger bodies can as well and they are just as dangerous. So it concerns me that fasting is promoted for those in larger bodies without consideration for the psychological well being of these individuals. I feel like focusing on a well formulated keto eating style coupled with the natural periods of fasting that accompany this way of eating is more sustainable for the long term and promotes better mental health. Telling people there are no side effects to engaging in longer fasts for extended periods of time can be harmful. I’d like to see these charismatic authority figures account for the potential for fasting to affect people in negative ways, and to acknowledge that eating disorders can present themselves in people who have larger bodies. I was interviewed for an upcoming episode of the Keto Woman Podcast in which I discuss my experience with anorexia and keto. Hope everyone will have a listen and learn more about this important subject!


(Jennifer Fawcett) #5

On limited bandwidth right now (phone) so don’t want to burn minutes watching vid–what does Dr. Nally feel is excessive? I have done up to 120 hours with no issues, but not sure I want to go a whole lot farther than that–currently in the middle of a 72 hour fast, again with no issues. Thoughts?


(Chris) #6

He’s right to be concerned, and I think Fung goes far to try to explain the risks clearly. The problem here is, it’s a big fad that’s catching on like wildfire, and so many people are finding out about so fast that they’re not taking the time to educate themselves on how to do it safely. And most are not consulting their doctor.

I am a member on the fasting subreddit. There’s a host of good, solid information in their sidebar description, yet every single day there is at least one new post from someone who tried fasting for more than one day, started to feel awful and decided “fasting isn’t for me”. Well, that’s great fucking advice, because you don’t read what’s given to you for free.

People are going to hurt themselves physically and mentally by going off all willy nilly on it.

This is coming from a guy who fasts all the time, it’s risky as hell and I do it very consciously, with a plan each time, with electrolytes and water on hand, and with the people I work and live with aware of what I’m doing in case there is a problem.


(KCKO, KCFO) #7

Dr. Fung goes into great detail about the risks and states repeatedly don’t do 14 day + unless under dr. supervison. But people do longer ones all the time without that precaution.

I read up on fasting for two weeks before even starting IFing. Read even more for a few weeks more, then I decided to take the plunge but I think 5 days is all I will ever need to do at a time. It worked to get me to my goal weight and is helping me maintain, now I do up to 3 days, mixing it up all the time with IFing, 24 hr. fasting.

I don’t think fasting is for everyone. Heck, true Keto isn’t for everyone. After I kickstarted my weight loss, I climbed the Atkins Carb ladder to 50 grams. That and fasting is how I live now.


#8

I’m happy just being in a state where I only eat when I am hungry. 18/6, or thereabouts has become normal for me, and I am happy doing it. I don’t watch the clock, my body tells me.


#9

Looking forward to that. This is an important issue to be sure.

EDIT:
I should add that I have not been diagnosed with an eating disorder but I would say I have always had a disordered relationship with food, especially emotional eating. Fasting has actually helped me detach from some destructive habits and help me realize I am in control over when I eat, not my emotions. It has been very empowering actually. Everyone is unique. That works for me but it might be a very very bad idea for another person.

There are any number of ways people could go the wrong way with advice (about anything) online. We have to do our homework and make decisions that we feel are best for us. We can try things for a short time and if we find out they are not right for us, stop doing it. Or choose not to try that. Or choose to ask a medical professional before trying it. I don’t mind that there are non-medical professionals bringing fasting (and keto etc.) to the attention of the public, because these are helpful to many, but many would not even know about them if not for the internet. I believe it is up to us to take responsibility for our own health and to take whatever means necessary to get the correct information we need to make good choices.


#10

He himself does an 18-24 hour fast every month for religious reasons. He seems ok with up to 24 hours based on that, but he does not even think intermittent fasting is entirely safe… I guess I’m not sure yet what his definition is, I missed the last part of the video and can’t get it to reload. My understanding of his viewpoint is the natural pauses in eating that come from satiety with eating HFLC are fine, but not to force an artificial time of not eating.

I have fasted as long as 7 days (with careful supplementing of electrolytes, mostly as pink salt) and had good experiences with blood sugar lowering and increased energy and mental clarity. I have had to take time off from fasting as I am doing a functional medicine program, and I have gained back some weight, my blood sugar is higher and I have brain fog and lowered energy. I’m putting up with it in order to work on some gut health and nutritional deficiencies (not sure if either of these could be blamed on fasting, but I just don’t know). I am looking forward to doing more fasting again, as I think it helped reverse my formerly elevated liver enzymes and improved my kidneys (based on bloodwork).


(Allie) #11

I made a point of researching a LOT before even attempting fasting, but I’m still very aware of its potential to trigger my old harmful habits of disordered eating. Not everyone will be aware of this risk if they have a similar kind of history and for these people, it is potentially dangerous.


(Nicole Sawchuk) #12

Is Dr. Nally against fasting for people with previous eating disorders? Than yes I completely agree! Is fasting for everyone? Of course not! Its a tool that people can use if they choose!

Our bodies were made for periods of fasting. How long you fast and how often depends on where you are in your health journey.

All I know is that despite being strict on keto, I could not lose weight nor kick those carb cravings. I introduced fasting and voila! Everything fell into place with fasting! I feel better! I have energy and my body thrives on it! It has allowed me to listen to my body’s needs and respond to it! I actually enjoy food more now!

Point being - there is no one “fits all” model for people. Fasting is a tool like keto, carb cycling, zero carb…etc.

Pick what works for you!


(What The Fast?!) #13

Same! I couldn’t lose weight with keto (even trying multiple variations, including ZC). I introduced extended fasting and the scale is finally budging. I don’t experience any increase in energy or mental clarity, but I’m finally losing weight - and that’s the thing I care about.

To @Emacfarland’s point - I definitely see how fasting can become an obsession and/or a disorder. I’m concerned about gaining weight back after these extended fasts and having to do fasting the rest of my life. I don’t know that there’s any other option for me though.


#14

In a year, you’ll post on here about how much you’ve loved being at your target weight even though you’ve had to keep fasting in the mix - but in the meantime you’ve started a new business/gotten a degree/written a book because you have SO MUCH extra time from fasting. :grin:


(What The Fast?!) #15

I admit I’m saving lots of time and money!


#16

So new business/new degree/new book AND lots of extra pocket money!


(Tim W) #17

Lots of respect for DR. Muscles, I miss him on the Jimmy Moore podcast…

He makes a point to say that combining fasting with keto while ALSO using meds, that’s dangerous, he also talks about fasting “with ketones/broth” and how a DROP IN ELECTROLYTES leads to a dangerous situation.

So:

  1. Get your electrolytes! We talk about keto aid all the time on this site, it will allow you to long term fast!
  2. Don’t combine fasting with meds without medical supervision!
  3. If you are “eating keto” eat keto, don’t mix fasting/IF/Keto (according to DR. Nally). If you’ve listened to Dr. Nally for some time, he’s often said he doesn’t like people ignoring hunger signals, he talked about it often on the podcast. If you are fasting, you often have to ignore hunger signals, especially early on in the process.

So, he says autophagy is natural, don’t make it out to be more than it is, fasting won’t kill you but don’t “fast” without electrolytes, while using ketones… etc. etc. etc. He doesn’t say that fasting never works/is never the solution.

A good post, a good video, some good info there.


#18

Welcome to the Internet 2017! The same can be said about anything. Some people read obsessively and others wade in without a backward glance because their cousin’s sister’s ex wife said something at a party and lost 10 lbs.

As others have said, especially the women it seems, I cannot lose weight on keto, only maintain. When I fast, especially for 5 days either fat fasting or real fasting I can lose a couple of lbs and maintain them with keto


(What The Fast?!) #19

What does this mean? Are you saying not to keto when you refeed from a fast?


(Tim W) #20

I should have clarified that, I took that away from the video, not that it was my POV or that I agree with it.

I personally (and that’s all I can speak to) eat keto and combine it with IF and long fasts. I find that eating keto before/after a long fast works for me.