Don't understand why people want to go back


#1

I don’t understand why anybody who has gone keto would want to go back.
Can somebody please help me out on this?

I could see having half a sweet potato here and there or a bit of squash but I’d still be within keto limits.


#2

We go back because of learning. Life long learning is a repetitive story cycle. We circle back to what we once thought we knew to look at it again with new acquired knowledge. Then the knowledge grows as the knowledge-makers learn more. The gentle spiral continues.


(Jason Rodger) #3

Two months in, a bit of weight off, my cycling performance is being reshaped dramatically, my skin and nails have improved and my sleep patterns are now normal.

So generally positive.

The problem for me lies with the actual food, I am simply not enjoying it, I have not yet broken my love for carbs and eating in this way does put serious restrictions on my social life. Want to go out for dinner? there are about 2 restaurants locally that I can choose.

I will persist, but if I get to six months and still wake up in the morning wanting to eat my bodyweight in Doritos then I will probably taper off.

Every regime is not right for every person, I don’t subscribe to the notion that people who choose other paths - Vegan for example, are wrong

My own wife, while not Vegan eats very little meat and dairy, she has ran 2 ultra-marathons in the past
year.


#4

:hammer: Hit the nail on the head. It’s often good to know why people embark on different health pursuits.

An active athlete certainly has different nutrition requirements from a way of eating (WOE) than a person who is obese and has just received a Type-2 Diabetes diagnosis from their doctor, as examples of people’s different starting points.

Some people don’t need to be in applied nutritional ketosis until they do (need to be in nutritional ketosis). Some people just are naturally in nutritional ketosis after a good night’s sleep. If there is no current health need to actively pursue nutritional ketosis, then that is a something to understand about why people go back to eating a non-ketogenic way.

There are wonderful predictive biomarker tests available to help people make decisions. I think the Kraft insulin assay test is highly predictive of possible future problems, as an example. Even in people who believe themselves to be currently healthy.

It’s good, I think, to be interested in improving one’s health and politely curious about the ways-of-being in the plethora of different human beings that surround us.


(Allie) #5

Only those who incorrectly think it’s a quick fix just for weight loss seem to think that way, and maybe also people who have carb addictions they’re not ready to face / deal with properly.


(Shawn Patrick Malone) #6

If some of you like catbs you still can, you just wouldn’t be Keto and that’s ok. You can go low carb, still enjoy the carbs you like, just in a smaller amount. If that’s the direction you go you just don’t go really high in fats, you go higher in protein and still lose weight if that’s your goal. It’s just a bit slower.


(Bacon enough and time) #7

Carb addiction is a real phenomenon for certain people. For a carb addict, the lure of eating carbs again is like the desire for alcohol that an alcoholic experiences.


#8

It is an excuse game people keep on allowing in their lives.

One can excuse ‘not dieting’ and even tho we keep saying it is a lifestyle eating change, people still ‘feel they are dieting’.

It is hard for someone to say I will never eat XYZ foods again. Cause when one does, most fall off the wagon and try very hard to get back on it. Doesn’t matter what plan anyone is doing. Diet is a 4 letter horrible word and everyone puts that word as negative.

Unless one changes their mindset and get off the sugar which is an addiction physically to the body, it is hard to ever STAY on plan. Key to it all, STAY on the plan you have chosen, now ya gotta work thru all the mind games and physical issues that come with that statement.

It’s hard :slight_smile: It knocked me around for a while but the bulldog I am, eventually I got that ‘click’ that has set me in a forward long term motion with my eating plan.

We can excuse every ‘diet’ out there all the time. Reasons to eat crap and say I will get back on plan tomorrow.

It is that old saying, I am one french fry away every day from dumping my eating plan and saying screw this :slight_smile: Many say, screw this!


(Todd Allen) #9

Apricots, peaches, cherries, apples and pears. Before going keto we planted those trees and for many years we mostly abstained. But now I am thin and healthy and I can eat from them in moderation and maintain good blood sugar. And it seems like nearly every week the prices of food go up and we don’t have a money tree.


#10

yes but most never want THAT back. It is wonderful you found your personal way that works so well for you!!

---------in general chat, they want the all you can eat loaded cheese and bacon french fries, the supreme loaded pizza, the popcorn, giant pretzel, cotton candy or candy apple at a festival and so much more.

the favs their moms cooked growing up like mac n cheese and lasagna and fried fish and fried taters of all kinds and FAST FOOD that all of us have come to love and inhale.

We all got the favs we love love love and give it up forever, woof, is a hard thing to deal with.

it is the loaded fries, drinking beer out with friends for that weekend relax time, or being on vacation and excusing all those celebratory days in life…my birthday, just one small slice of cake for me and then away they go…if it ain’t their bday, it is their kids cause they feel if their kid asks them to eat a small piece cake they feel they should, for them ya know :wink:

big big excuse mental play games out there. I know, I said them all :wink:

hard extraordinary changes against the norm we lived with require massive commitment.


(Robin) #11

I agree with you @LordFlash.
Keto isn’t for everyone. Nothing in life is for everyone.
If I did not like what I was eating (after a good long try) and had lost the joy of eating, I would turn back to.


#12

how is that a real deal statement tho in that most of the food we eat today is fake. all chemical added addictive foods to make one buy so if we don’t wanna eat veg and real meat and only want the chemical slurry induced foods that are on the shelf with a list of ingredients that is huge and all one can’t pronounce isn’t that kinda an ‘excuse’ to not detox off the crap and then find what real food is all about?

not a fight here in any way cause I was that above person who hated ‘real food’ point blank. I wanted all the crap on those shelves but once we put a real commitement into changing us and not continuing to backslide thru our efforts, maybe one has a real fighting chance to change.

I mean meds we take can change our taste and I firmly believe can monkey deeply with our brains too and how our thoughts progress, or do some bigger meds people are taking do truly say, you can’t think in a clear path cause you are on these meds?

so many gray areas here for each of us.

you got the ‘doers’ that try thru hell and highwater and ya got the ones that know they won’t change…again alot of mental change here but also the ‘tryers’ still give themselves a pat on the back for tryin’ so it counts. the doers find ways around ALL to get what they desire.

but there are a ton of paths and detours and hard journey for so many of us and how we land in the end, shows tons about who were are but also, on meds? who knows? and what truth in hardcore medical issues one is facing has a big play in it all.

again, just a general chat on it. way too many shades of gray on our mental status. Even in bariatric surgery they are required to handle time with a real therapist. Cause alot of childhood and trauma has set people up for total failure and block to move forward…so if we know this, those of us less traumatized do have issues we combat but can one work thru or is one blocked or is one truly being the one who pats themselves on the back for tryin’ and then say oh woe is me?

again big swings in how this all goes down for each of us but it is a good chat to maybe make someone say ‘who am I’ and ‘what am I willing to do for me’ maybe?


#13

But what if I want to eat 5 sweet potatoes or bananas?
Not everyone is good with tiny amounts. I am, actually, if it’s something unneeded but I couldn’t do that with fried cauliflower in the past… And if I touched that dish, that was 40g net carbs…
And these are just very modest desires. BUT they only explain off days, not going back and staying there for long.

But some people actually feels better with more carbs. Or still a big addict. Or they can pull off losing fat on keto then going back to, say, low-carb and maintain there, who knows? There must be a few people like that.

I immediately quit keto when I got fat-adaptation because I missed my vegetables so much. I only had 40g net carbs, 25g went to vegs and it was below minimal if you asked me.
Now it’s a few grams (often <1g) on most days, it’s scary how much one can change… I eat almost anything on my very off days but vegs? :smiley: Not really.

And I have a fruit garden and I always went off keto in June.
But I always came back.

And some people had a pretty good just not good enough woe before keto… And keto may bring not enough benefits. Apart from fat adaptation (that I had even if I didn’t do keto anymore), I got no benefits from my old keto. It felt just like my old, beloved low-carb where I actually lost fat - but it was harder. No wonder I jumped back. It’s another thing I felt lower-carb is the way but keto in its original form wasn’t particularly tempting. It just was easy enough so I could do it often for some days. But it’s hard for some other people.

What I don’t really understand, how can someone who successfully did keto for a while and getting great benefits going back to some bad high-carb… It makes little sense to me. But maybe the one in question forces temporal keto for themselves, the benefits aren’t motivating and go back to their addiction? Sounds bad, they should fight against it… I never did temporal except for very short term experiments.


(Rebecca ) #14

This…


(Kirk Wolak) #15

Easy. most people have food addictions they are not even aware of.

And they have learned to comfort themselves with food. As well as various food is “socialized” into us. Many people can go back and forth. But if you have a food addiction issue.

It takes just that FIRST Bite to potentially lead to a binge, or a 3 day bender.

I am reading Rezoom by Bright Line Eating. And they talk ALOT about the psychology and our internal voices that sometimes tell us the wrong things… They have 4 bright lines you don’t break to stay “sober” on your food: No Sugar/Sweeteners, No Flour, Plan you Food, Eat your Plan, but ONLY at the planned meals. (So, in line with TRE, time restricted eating). Which is something I need.

Anyways, it’s mostly a mental game (an Inside Job from Robin)…
It’s easy and great when everything is working…
When something breaks… SOMETHING will GIVE WAY!

For example, I know the fastest way to get back on track is to OVEREAT Fatty Food (only stuff on the core keto program, like sausage) [Fat Fasting]… For me…

But I also know that HORRIBLE SLEEP leaves me in a dangerous position.
As does Extreme Work Stress. I will BAIL on my FASTING PLANS to avoid a worse outcome.

And that Half of a Sweet Potato… that would certainly lead me astray. I don’t think I could just stop after tasting the sweetness!


#16

Different for each person, while I do a Hybrid TKD/CKD now, compared to standard keto, you could also half fairly say that doing a hybrid of the two isn’t much different than just a normal low carb / timed carb approach, which is many ways it is, not but when I’m not eating carbs intentionally, I’m eating keto style meals, which is really where the difference is.

For me, it was gym performance, I convinced myself that I performed just as good after 4yrs of keto that I did on carbs, and that couldn’t be further from the truth. Having carbs around my workouts made a complete night and day difference in the gym. I’ve got less fat and more muscle on me right now than I ever did while doing standard keto, the plates on the bar, and my DEXA’s don’t lie. My AIC’s and inflammation are holding fine, my insulin resistance is gone and there’s no downside, only upside.

I don’t think, at least for people like me that did strict keto for years, that you ever really go back to SAD, you may bring back more carbs, but what you learn with keto can never be undone. Somebody that does it for 3mo to drop some vanity weight, ya maybe them.


#17

I’ve been yanked off low carb over 22 years through several ways. Sometimes for three days, and sometimes for nine months. One of the most surprising triggers was strawberries, which I grew at the time. By the third year, I had 300 plants which is 250 pounds of harvest, most of which I gave away, but I ate a cup or more daily, and a month later I found myself drinking a sugary soft drink. Sugar addiction for me, and while a carrot or a potato doesn’t trigger it (and I have one occasionally when I’m at a good weight), I stay entirely away from berries now–indeed from all things called “fruit” at the shops. It’s a learning process.

We’re hardwired to like sweet tastes, and our ancestors have for millions of years. They didn’t have much opportunity to eat sweet things, whereas we had every opportunity–indeed, have to work to avoid it! For some of us, that leads us down a path where there is no control. It takes some people years to figure this out entirely.

Compassion always helps people more than shaming and blaming. Always.


(Philip H Kern) #18

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I can tell you why I quit eating a keto diet. First I should say that I wasn’t looking for a great deal of weight loss. I got to within a few pounds of my target weight, but was never heavy and never had any blood issues. I have, however, dealt off and on with chronic fatigue ever since I had a nasty ‘flu’ about 15 years ago. So I went keto for a range of benefits and achieved nearly all of them–better skin, etc. I also think it is good for one’s teeth, though I don’t recall ever seeing that as a selling point.

On the negative side, I’d mention these things. I could not sleep well. The more I was in long term ketosis, the worse I slept. I’ve never had trouble with hemorrhoids in my nearly 60 years, but that changed when I went keto. Also, my energy was low and stayed there. A while ago I had a bad bout of sciatica, which meant I couldn’t do my normal exercise routine (walking and cycling). I thought I’d do upper body weight lifting (in very short workouts–though not HIIT–due to my fatigue risks). It seemed right to me to (a) up my protein a lot and (b) consume carbs in proximity to my workout. I am now lifting twice a week, so I’m basically low-carb most of the time, though not keto.

I’ve started eating in an 11:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. window. So my weight is under control, my posture is much better, I can eat a wide variety of things in that 8 hour period, and it is convenient when dining out. Importantly for me, my sleep is better and hemorrhoids are no longer a problem. I think part of my recent success is that I learned some things while on keto that transfer to good general health (e.g. minimise rice, potatoes, and corn), and the food discipline I attained has made it easy to adjust to the new way of eating.

So that’s my story. I ‘went back’ and while I am a big advocate for keto, don’t plan to take it up again–at least not a strict version. I liked the positives, but not to where they outweighed my own set of challenges. Now if I were pre-diabetic, I would be approaching this very differently.

I resonate with much of what Ifod14 wrote. I am also beginning to think that fat isn’t a problem and carbs aren’t a problem. I think it might be the combination of the two (in foods like pizzas and burgers) that are the problem. I know that isn’t a new idea, but I think I’ve got some (admittdely anecdotal) experience to back it up.


#19

It’s a common belief and it may be right for many people. But for many of us, too much carbs IS a problem. Well, maybe I shouldn’t say “us” as I can’t imagine doing HCLF, it’s my room 101, honestly. I need a TON of fat on higher-carb to balance things out. If I can’t do LCHF, I must do HCHF, it’s loads better for me than HCLF (and actually possible. I needed my full curiosity filled determination to pull of a single HCLF day once, it was the worst). If I combine it with OMAD, I don’t even overeat and I feel pretty good for days - and then I have no idea as I stop, nothing ever kept me from coming back to what I like best.

My SO ate HCHF all his life just like almost everyone but it seemingly works for him, he is thriving on it and he is healthier than me and I am pretty healthy. I suppose it must work for some if they do it right but of course, he is very young still, only 43 years old, we will see what happens after 100.
I understand the scientific explanation about why HCHF is bad but it’s just not the experience of some people. And he doesn’t even have another option as he can’t eat low-fat or low-carb (one meal is possible under the right circumstances but that’s it). If he tries, he immediately feels sick and never tries again (therefore yep, it wasn’t many experiments and never will be). It seems he needs high-carb for proper satiation, much fat and protein isn’t needed. I am the opposite.

I believe many, maybe most people should eat low-carb or lower-carb but even the high-carb would work better if people would do it smarter, with better food choices. It matters even to me if I eat some overprocessed sugary thing or, say, legumes… Even if the carbs are lower from the first. Those are nasty things.
The problem is complex and it’s not just the amount of carbs. But with better carb choices, even that should go lower in most cases.


(Robin) #20

Sleep and constipation issues can go away with nightly magnesium powder in water with salt.