Does a tbsp of butter in coffee break a fast and/or autophagy

(KetoQ) #22

Here’s a great YouTube video that helps answer the question of whether, butter, cream or MCT in your covfefe will break fast and knock you out of ketosis:

(Dawn) #23

Agreed. And I do the heavy cream with my decaf coffee. My weight comes off just fine. But I am fasting to lower insulin, not for autophagy. I still feel strongly that for autophagy fasting, sticking with water only is the one thing we know for certain will work.

(mags) #24

Probably. Sometimes I find fasting easy and others it’s more of an effort. So for weight loss purposes an occasional coffee is beneficial. I still have 100lb to lose so that is my priority at the moment.

(Dawn) #25

Well I can relate 100%. I have certain times when it goes very well and other times when it is a disaster. I am on a similiar path to you. My goal was to lose 100 pounds. I am at 75 pounds down and I have 25 more pounds to go. I will have to re-evaluate once I hit goal. I look forward to watching your progress. =0)

(Diane) #26

Nice video, thanks @Q66 for posting this.

I think there can be several different reasons why someone might fast. Fasting for weight loss, fasting to lower insulin resistance and fasting for autophagy come to mind.

This video suggests that fasting for weight loss and fasting to lower insulin resistance may not be affected by coffee with or without added fat. I did notice that their blood glucose readings did register slight drops at about 60-90 minutes on several of the days- which might indicate a very slight production of insulin- or these deviations may just fall within the margin of error for the testing and not mean anything.

Since there is no way to measure autophagy, it still doesn’t tell us if the coffee or added fat (cream, butter, or MCT oil) would interrupt autophagy.

I’m now tempted to do some similar testing using different foods/ sweeteners.

(mags) #27

Well done for losing 75lbs! :clap: How long has it taken you and have you experienced any major stalls yet? I’m currently down about 40lb from early February. I was too scared to jump on the scales for a month in case I was daunted!

(Dawn) #28

Unfortunately, I am still obese. But I can proudly say that I have moved from Obese class III to obese class I. Even when I get to my goal weight, I will still be in the obese category. So I will definitely have to re-evaluate once I get there. I am at the 10 month mark. I lost the majority of my weight during the first three months and then it has come down slowly but steadily from there over the last seven months.

(Sondra Rose) #29

Honestly, I didn’t save any links. You can search this site on the topic or try Google scholar. :slight_smile:

(Doug) #30

Rich, yes - have samples taken from your body and the number of autophagosomes counted. :slightly_smiling_face: Not practical for almost all of us.

Not sure if you got a consensus answer to your questions, and there certainly is some debate about this stuff.

1 tablespoon of butter in coffee doesn’t seem to really be going to break a fast, so to speak - i.e. even though there are some calories there, the insulin response will be so low as to be negligible, and your blood sugar isn’t going to be raised, providing you’re like most people.

I think the butter may decrease some of the hormonal benefits of fasting, like more growth hormone, but it’s a matter of degree, and if the butter makes it possible for you to fast, versus not fasting at all, then use the butter and be glad of it.

For autophagy, the picture is at least murkier, with some real potential thunderclouds around. Butter has milk solids in it, including some proteins. Ghee or clarified butter removes most of this problem. Milk solids include one specific protein, leucine, that is a very potent inhibitor of autophagy. 1 tbsp, is still a small amount of butter, and the amount of proteins/leucine in that will be very small indeed. Perhaps a matter of degree here too.

(Rich) #31

Thanks, @OldDoug I think I will try fasting the best I can and not worry too much about autophagy at this moment. And I’ll"'just keep calm and keto on!" :grinning:

(Jack Brien) #32

Two things come to mind for me. Butter has small amounts of protein, but coconut oil doesn’t. And insulin can be produced by the body, even at the thought of food can’t it?

(Bunny) #33

No it would not! It would be so temporary to the entire autophagy process that’s already in progress, that it would not make any difference!

(Jack Brien) #34

The Word according to Fung says it does, but he doesn’t say how much or whether it’s relevant. The cepahlic response

(Doug) #35

Jack, on the cephalic response - this is going to vary a good bit among people. As far as breaking a fast - let’s say our insulin does go up a little. The body had previously arrived at a balance, even if insulin resistant - the blood sugar level and the signaling for producing insulin. Increasing the signaling and insulin really is not going to break the fast, in my opinion. What I envision happening is that more insulin will mean some decline in the blood sugar level, perhaps slight, but still tending toward reducing the call for insulin thereafter. The fast continues…

If one is fasting for gaining insulin sensitivity, then this is of course counter-productive, but I don’t think it means the fast has ended.

@Q66, thank you for posting that video - I loved it, and love how straightforward they are about their testing and methods.

(Jack Brien) #36

But is this comparable to taking in fats or coffee? If it is, then the ‘fast’ is broken in the same way as cream in your coffee, a spoon of coconut oil or even a black coffee.

(Doug) #37

I really don’t think it’s the same. Insulin rising then falling, due to the cephalic response, if it does occur, differs from taking in calories. Not to say there are zero similarities, but in my opinion it’s not worth worrying about.

I do think, by definition, that a fast ends when we start taking in calories. Black coffee or unsweetened tea, in my opinion, do not end a fast, any more than does taking salt or other electrolytes… Coffee has some evidence that it stimulates autophagy, so I’m feeling pretty good about coffee, there.

Not saying we should hover above the buffet table all day, making our senses go nuts and perhaps provoking cephalic response, but I can’t do much about hormonal levels which fluctuate on their own. Hunger hormones have about 8 peaks and troughs per day, whether we’re eating or not. I am all for lowering insulin levels, many of us purely need this, and less insulin is better for autophagy, but one can only do so much. On some fasts I think about food a lot, and I doubt that’s a good thing, but some of it cannot be prevented, and racking up fasting days is far more important to me than what my exact insulin level, etc., is.

(karen) #38

When I’m fasting I tend to hang out here more. Yesterday I made the mistake of checking up on the “what did you keto today” thread (recipes and pictures of people’s awesome keto meals). At best, prompted impatience - I want to try these recipes now! and at worst, possibly contributed to a higher hormone peak; 5:30 - 8:30 pm was seriously a struggle. Maybe I’ll go to the movies today instead.

(Jack Brien) #39

You could be right. Sometimes I water fast, sometimes I take in an amount of fat. All depends on how I feel and what I’m doing and both seem to be worthwhile. I’m starting to think that cortisol and stress are larger factors in my well being than I realized. I think I’ll have to do a bit of research there

(Aimee Moisa) #40

What about measuring mTOR? Is that possible?

(Ron) #41

That is actually possible but not at a personal level.