Do I HAVE to eat my veggis?
Fiorella
#22
Check out these poor souls. So weak and unable to defend themselves against the challenges in their environment. If only they ate more veggiesā¦
Chance
(David)
#23
When someone talks about eating ZC, which makes others concerned about them missing out on nutrients in the long term, you donāt think this is necessarily correct. For the benefit of the original poster (and me) could you explain whether this requires eating more than just animal muscle and fat, but also liver, kidney (i.e. Nose to tail) etc or is muscle meat enough in your view? Thanks. PS enjoyed your appearance on the podcast and the reading it led me to.
JesS90
(Jessica)
#24
So another n=1:
My boyfriend, 28, not (yet) keto though, doesnāt eat vegetables, nor fruit. Never liked it, never will.
Most sort of vegetable-ish thing he has is tomato sauce as an ingredient of pizza or pasta, canned of course. Once or maybe twice a year he will have one-two single strawberries. I used to have the rest of the bowl.
I was seriously worried about him, so I tried loads of recipes to make him try things. But, like his mother, I failed. He took one bite maximum, disliked everything, even my tomato sauce.
Then I learned about ZC. Looking back, in the 8 years weāre together, heās been completely fine.
He very rarely got sick and his weight is normal. Without supplements.
Now the thing is, he likes meat. A lot. And this just has to be the nutricious component of his meals, the rest is mostly carbage, no whole grains, no quinoa or whatever, just white bread, ketchup, pasta and so on.
So Iāve become more conscious about meat quality to make sure he gets enough nutrients, but Iāll let him do his thing. Although Iām still hoping to get him into keto - this would be so good for him. The Carbage will hit him someday.
bokkiedog
(Nick)
#26
Until then, you could listen to a Paleo Magazine Radio episode that @amber , I and others were on titled āIs eating plants Paleo?ā
trekkin1
(Jo Lo)
#27
Interesting discussion. Iām impressed with the high caliber of the people chiming in about this.
Well informed, balanced, experienced, international.
Thanks!
Mr.A46221
(Andrew Anderson)
#28
Very interesting! My personal favorite is spinach fried in bacon fat! It seems like a fair balance.
Bahrutile
(Dustin Cade)
#30
I like brussel sprouts, broccoli but I donāt eat them but a few times a weekā¦ Unless I want to eat them moreā¦ I donāt really think itās an issue either way reallyā¦ Bigger fish to fryā¦
yogipete
#31
I made an honest mistake about her gender. As far as being rude. What are you construing as rude? That I disagree with her and disagree with her summary of what was discussed in the other thread? Which she raised here, not me.
I havenāt descended to name-calling, as you have. You donāt know me.
yogipete
#32
I have considered the words here carefully for some time.
I stand by my viewpoints on the irresponsibility of zero-carb (and zero plant fiber) recommendations being made without mention of risks.
I believe itās only a matter of time before somebody dies from dogmatic and loosely thrown about extreme low-carb recommendations.
I am keto myself, and so yes, I take it seriously enough that I believe confronting people on their recommendation is warranted. The whole community will be tainted if somebody dies from dogmatic low-carb beliefs. Please read this article:
He says, āIn my opinion, low-carb zealots trolling the web scaring people away from whole foods like carrots and fruits, without any regard to context, are no better than militant vegans spreading fear mongering about meat and eggs.ā
I agree with him.
If someone asks if itās okay to zero out on their carbs and fiber I donāt consider it adequate to just say āyes, go for it, the Masai do.ā The vast majority of keto experts beyond this group are recommending veggies (regardless of any off-the-cuff mentions they make about the Masai and Inuit, and the possibility to zero-carb safely).
Photos of Masai warriors are a non-argument. Even scientists researching the Masai donāt use it as an argument for zero-carb. Itās a logical fallacy to apply it to a broader audience, and I know that Fiorella knows better than to do so. So Iām perplexed that she would use such a knowingly fallacious argument to make her point when she has better skills at her disposal to make her point. Someone could post photos of a 30 bananas a day zealout and it would be meaningless also.
However, the main problem with the Masai argument is nobody is living exactly like the Masai: extremely active in the sunshine, eating whole fresh kills, including offal, drinking fermented milk, and sucking raw blood from the vein while covered in natural bacteria in the fresh air and bare feet on the ground.
Who exactly in the west is approximating this way of life?
If youāre living in a polluted, irradiated place, suffering from western food system toxicity, and a passive lifestyle, you are in a very different situation. Clearly people arenāt dropping dead of zero-carb diets. However, there are very real risks, and a couple of people have had some truly scary outcomes, including coma, and scurvy.
These arenāt just possibilities. They are actual events. My request is that people temper their recommendations with a good dose of common sense. Your personal zero-carb experience is not universal.
p.s. I have removed the poorly sourced links from my comments above.
Daisy
#38
I am about to start reading the articles but the Telegraph headline is about a guy on the Dukan diet - not keto.
matt
(matt )
#39
Did you read the study?
Its all n=1 and a huge outlier.
āKetoacidosis might on rare occasions be caused by a diet with low carbohydrate content. However, to the best of our knowledge this is the first reported case in the literature of ketoacidosis in a non-diabetic patient, associated with a combination of low carbohydrate, high fat diet and lactation.ā