Dietary supplements while fasting

(Tanogae) #1

Hi,
I am doing Omad and taking a bile salt supplement, which is one that is supposed to be taken with food - 1 or 2 caplets a day. Soon I plan on doing 48 hr. and longer fasts. Should I stop taking the food-dependent supplement while I’m not eating? I really don’t want to stop taking it unless it’s going to cause problems. Does anyone have any knowledge or experience with this issue?
Thanks,
Tano

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

There is no need for bile salts if you are not eating. Their purpose is to help you digest your food. Fasting = not eating food = no need for bile salts.

(Tanogae) #3

Hi, Thanks for the info. I think I shall follow it. However, if you’ll allow me to be pedantic for a moment, in the literature there are listed other benefits to taking bile salts. I just wish I could keep those non-digestive benefits going while fasting.

Fight Infectious Agents.
Promote Gallbladder and Liver Function.
Help Dissolve Gallstones.
Allow for the Digestion and Absorption of Fats and Nutrients.
Affect Bacteria in the Gut.
Help Control Blood Sugar Levels.
Trigger the Release of Glutathione.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #4

A lot of those benefits result from the better digestion of the food that accompanies the bile salts, which the salts enable. They will continue in the absence of the salts+food, never fear, because they are also signs of a healthy body. Fasting will help maintain them, too, especially the improvement in intestinal bacteria and blood glucose control.

A well-formulated ketogenic diet is a great aid to promoting and restoring metabolic health, and metabolic health is essential to general health. So many of the conditions that afflict our society have been shown to be the result of metabolic damage: obesity, diabetes, most cancers, heart disease, high blood pressure, Alzheimer’s disease, other mental health problems, motor-neuron disease, liver disease, and so forth.

(Tanogae) #5

Well said. Thanks again.
Regards,
Tano

(Tanogae) #6

Hello again,
Just came across a YouTube video “The nine benefits of bile salts” by Dr. Eric Burg, 2 yrs old. To me at least, he seems like one of the more knowledgeable and believable pro-keto advisors/influencers. In this seminar he advises taking your bile supplements on an empty stomach! WTF. The bottle says before eating. Same advice online. It’s frustrating when contradictory advice comes from different quarters, especially when the sources seem credible. How’s a lay person to know?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #7

It sounds as though you are not clear on the reason for taking bile salts. The bile salts are to help you digest your food.

Take them on an empty stomach shortly before your meal, so that they can be present when the food arrives. They’re not going to help as well if you start eating and then take the pill(s). “Empty stomach” in this case does not mean “a couple of hours before a meal,” though it might mean that, in the case of some other medication. And some medications don’t work right, unless you take them along with food. I agree it can get confusing, but it all has to do with the purpose of the medication and how it reacts in the body.

(Tanogae) #8

Hi Paul,
Yes, I understand what you are saying and I see the logic of it. My last comments were only to say that, when so called experts offer contradictory advice on a subject, it causes me to pause and reconsider my course of action. There is alot of advice offered online, in forums, and places like YouTube, some of which turn out to be valid and alot of which do not. Figuring out which is which is challenging when one is not already knowledgeable in the subject. There are many self-appointed “experts” popping up around and I am not one to blindly accept everything I hear. And so I question and try to educate myself. That is one of the main reasons I joined this forum.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #9

I was trying to point out that the advice isn’t actually contradictory. The pill should accompany a meal, and you want to take it while your stomach is empty; i.e. before the meal, not during.

The best sites for how to take medication are the CDC, the Cleveland Clinic, and the Mayo Clinic, because they explain things (at varying degrees of simplicity, granted). There are other sites, such as WebMD, that I’d treat with a bit of caution, though they often do have good information.

Joe vidographer on YouTube, whether he has a medical degree or not, is not likely to be reliable. There are YouTube videos by professionals who are experts in their field, but how are you going to evaluate them? The advice of the real experts is going to be pretty consistent, and when they do have a different recommendation, it will sound like, “I know the official advice is to do X, but here are the reasons I think Y is better. . . .”

Drs. Berg, Mercola, and so on are not reliable, in my experience, because they are enthusiasts and not experts. They also have products to sell. Mike Mutzel and Thomas Delauer both have degrees, but I don’t trust them entirely, either. I prefer to watch their videos with the sound off, especially when they are shirtless.

(Tanogae) #10

Paul,
Thank you so much for the additional info and your comments on YouTube personalities. Your opinion of Dr. Burg is especially helpful to me.
Later,
Tano

(Tanogae) #11

Paul,
Would you rate these YouTube Keto/Fast doctors (if you know of them) whose advice I have, at least up to now, been open to considering? I value your opinion.
Thanks

Dr. Eric Westman
Dr. Sten Ekburg
Dr. Jason Fung
Dr. Ken Berry
Dr. Dan Maggs
Dr. Annette Boswort
Dr. Rangan Chatterjee
Dr. Thomas Segfried

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

Eric Westman is very good. He runs (or used to run, I’m not sure) an obesity clinic at Duke University, and he helped do research on Dr. Atkins’s patients, to show that the diet actually worked and was healthy. He has since published other research as well.

A lot of people think highly of Sten Ekburg. I don’t know much about him, myself.

Jason Fung is the expert on fasting.

Ken Berry is a well-educated physician, keeps up with the research, and is a good populariser. His folksy manner helps get real knowledge across to people who might otherwise be intimidated.

Dan Maggs I know nothing about, sorry.

Annette Bosworth (“Dr. Boz”) is another good populariser. Worth listening to.

Rangan Chatterjee is someone I’m not so sure about. But he is smart and has some good information.

Thomas Seyfried is a well-known cancer researcher and knows a lot about the metabolic effects of caner, and also about using a ketogenic diet and fasting to help patients do well on radiation and chemotherapy treatments. I think he believes that keto alone should help treat most cancers, but that remains to be demonstrated, and chemo and radiation are the standard of care.

Some of my favourites, whom you might want to look at, are:
Stephen Phinney and Jeff Volek, long-time researchers into a ketogenic diet.
Robert Lustig, a paediatric endocrinologist famous for his lecture on frructose, but he knows a lot about metabolism, especially in the liver.
Benjamin Bikman, a researcher into energy metabolism and the effects of insulin. He has a lot to say about insulin resistance and metabolic disease.
Richard Bernstein, a doctor and Type I diabetic, who uses a low-carb, high-fat diet to manage his own and patients’ Type I diabetes. The inspiration for the Type I Grit page on Facebook.
Richard Feinman (“the other”), a biologist and reasearcher. Not generally present on YouTube, but worth watching if you find one of his lectures.
David Diamond, a neurophysiologist who got into studying the research on statins and cardiovascular disease. He is one of the members of The International Network of Cholesterol Sceptics (THINCS), which includes a number of prominent scientists who all believe that cholesterol has nothing to do with causing cardiovascular disease.

Okay, I’ve probably overloaded you now. Sorry! I’ll stop here, though.

(Tanogae) #13

Thanks. You have indeed piled-on the homework. I will look them up as I travel on my quest.
Tano

(KM) #14

I was impressed with Ekberg until he interrupted his YT for a 5 minute promo for his product - don’t even remember what product it was, possibly electrolyte drink? It was just too seamless somehow. Here is a huge amount of data showing you the issue, and guess what, I have the cure in my pocket. For a price.

That’s a slippery slope, because YT is not going to pay most people’s bills and it makes sense that if they’re really deep into their subject, they might truly believe they have something better to offer than what’s already out there, but I honestly prefer a setup like Berry has going where you can boost your level of contact / participation with him by being a paying member / client, rather than by buying a product.

#15

I have only heard of people taking a bile salts if they have had their gall bladder removed. Helps to break down the fats.

(Michael) #16

🥸

(Michael) #17

I take bile salts immediately after eating with noticeable effects, albeit minor.

(Tanogae) #18

I just started taking bile salt caps two days ago. I’ll let you-all know what’s going down in a month or so. Btw, I still have my gall bladder but I’ve got to confess I don’t really know what it’s doin’.

#19

Lost me at Eric Berg.

Everybody’s entitled to their opinions, however, in realty he’s one of the biggest Keto morons on Youtube, pretty much makes his living by copying other peoples videos, and whenever one is original, he totally talks out of his backside. He’s also been sued multiple time for scamming people in real life with his in person clinic.

In the off chance you didn’t know, he’s not a Medical Doctor, he’s a Chiropractor that’s self appointed himself a keto guru. While it’s actually pretty normal for a lot of Chiro’s to get into some level of nutrition these days, he’s all about recycled advice and peddling his underdosed (and overpriced) supplements.

(Tanogae) #20

Wow, thanks for sharing that. I wasn’t aware. I’m so glad I joined this forum. Don’t think I’ll be watching any more of his vlogs.