Diet Pop

#21

As stated!

(Kirk Wolak) #22

Interesting… Welcome to the concept of Addiction Transference.
Usually the 12 step programs go the other way (away from alcohol), and towards donuts and coffee. It’s the only downside of most addiction programs. They transfer your addiction to a more acceptable addiction. Why do most ex-smokers gain so much weight (suddenly food taste good they say. Nope. Slightly true, but now they get a dopamine hit from food!)

I wish the community talked more about how these addictions interact. One doctor mentioned that his patients who were giving up carbs either reduced their porn or increased their porn… Again, in some cases getting healthier reduces other addictions. In other cases, it’s easier to transfer an addiction than to just get rid of one.

I am a non-drinking (about 4 times a year). I could not fathom drinking alcohol daily. But I have a family history of alcoholism and drugs. And I would prefer to not dance with any more devils. What I never knew was… I was clearly (and still am), addicted to foods! Now, I am NOT addicted to NATURES food. I am addicted/addictable to man-made foods (Pepperoni, to keto snacks). [I sadly admit that under stress, I’ve eaten 8 Quest Cookies in one “sitting”, and I’ve polished off 2 boxes of Atkins coconut bars in another] While these are BETTER than the real thing, the truth is that it triggers the lowest level of the addictions for me, and (like others I read about), usually triggers falling further off the wagon.

It’s why I think artificial sweeteners are now evil. They are at the root my addiction to sweet tasting things. And once I consume them, I struggle to fast, I struggle to stick with my TRE (Time Restricted Eating), I start getting inflamed, and stop sleeping as well. Yet I am drawn to them! (they do harm, and I still want them. I want to Negotiate about them. Sound like an alcoholic making an excuse to have ONE BEER after work? It feels that way to me).

#23

Are you a psychologist?

#24

Apologies!

#25

I ate 20 slices of cake without any stress, after I had my proper food for a day from low-carb food.
I don’t remember if that was before or after I got bored of cakes as I ate too much of them on keto… It was around the same time I guess. But I still am bored of them. That is nice.

But this is because I need bigger meals. If I have ONE food, I eat much of that unless it’s not tempting. It alone isn’t an addiction.

Thankfully nothing ever beats pork taste wise for me. So I overeat pork but just sometimes. It’s pretty safe. But I won’t stop eating after a tiny food. I am too hungry at that point.

Sweeteners are tricky. They don’t do anything particularly bad to me (beyond shocking me with their horrible taste except a few) BUT they still may trigger wanting more sweets. Or not if I do it right, eating some big, nutritious, satiating meal using some. If I am satiated and don’t add a lot of carbs suddenly, it’s fine.

It’s sad. And odd to me though I surely have something similar just way weaker?
My main inner self is my hedonist self. I lose interest in things that are noticeably harmful to me or at least I can’t want them frequently. (Oh I have my big bunch of own hardships, don’t worry. If I don’t do about everything right, I tend to overeat.) But I heard about so many people who has the same problem :frowning:

I had (sometimes still have) compulsions. Maybe you have that too?
These are irresistible non-desires. Sometimes I don’t want the stuff at all, it’s not good for me at any level, it’s just some insane order to consume it (because it is there. temporarily. that has power if one is me). I rarely have this but it’s very bad, it hurts my pride, my hedonism and health-consciousness. It’s limited enough that not much harm is done and I got better but still, it’s crazy. If I don’t stray from my woe, it’s way better. But I am the straying type.
Some people have way, way stronger, more frequent and worse compulsions, I don’t know how they do it.

(GINA ) #26

I have a friend who had weight loss surgery. In her pre and post sessions there was a lot of counseling around controlling alcohol consumption. Apparently many weight loss patients become alcoholics when their new stomachs can’t handle the food they were previously addicted to.

(Robin) #27

There are many former addicts on here, myself included. We’ve talked about it sometimes being our super power, because we learned how to draw a hard line and not cross it. Ever.

I think some are also be drawn to obsessing over keto or carnivore, tracking, researching, analyzing…and it becomes their new healthy addiction.

(Kirk Wolak) #28

I don’t know about “compulsions”. Occasionally for macadamias. And I say compulsion, because I have driven to the store at night to get them. Nuts are a trigger food for me. I cannot moderate them. I’ve bought 2lbs of nuts. I ate 2lbs of nuts. I put the bag away. 30 minutes later, I have the bag again.

Now, my wife is Mediterranean. She eats like that. But she tends to eat OMAD by nature. It’s just how she feels. And despite “carb loading”, she is usually in ketosis (she had me check a couple of times. Really peeves me off. But she probably never damaged her metabolism). Also, explains her normal indifference to food!

thanks for asking, and thanks for sharing @Shinita Part of being here that is healthy is having a community and exploring these concepts.

#29

I only heard about that from a friend. I am very different. If I put something into the freezer, it’s usually good enough, I won’t take that out without a reason :smiley: (Except for peanut fatbombs.) Even unopened packages stop me. Opened ones are problematic unless I got desensitized or trained. I can handle my peanut addiction just fine with an open jar near me ALL the time. I decided on no-peanut July, it helps even on my off days, not like I do it perfectly… But never more than 1 piece. Okay 2 because we opened the wasabi one and it’s special and didn’t have it since ages… I better draw a line and really don’t touch them in July. If I must, we have cashew… my loophole seeking personality isn’t always helpful. That’s why I like carnivore and even my own carnivore-ish. It doesn’t allows peanut or fruit at all (except lemon). I need just the right amount of strictness and then I only go off occasionally, it’s good enough.

My body stopped me at 150g or something even in the height of my peanut addiction but I do what you described with dried dates. Several low-carb years could do nothing, I just ate it all up. It was only 500g, fortunately… I probably would do better now but I don’t let dates enter my house… Dried plums are better anyway…
Sometimes substitution is very successful. If we chose it right, we can go from serious addiction to a less serious one and maybe we can jump out of it? I try it with not dietary things but those are way more strong than my food/drink addictions since carnivore (it just took them all away except the thing with coffee. and it’s pretty harmless so my motivation to stop is a bit too weak). I think I have a thing for weak addiction. Annoying enough but nothing like what some people experience. And it’s usually not about specific items, that exists too but it’s rather overeating in general. I always blame the carbs and I am right. It’s very hard to avoid them all the time (not completely, that’s unrealistic. I am fine with 20-30g carbs as long as only a few grams or less comes from non-animal stuff. 40g is too much lactose longer term, I am not very sensitive but still. but I rarely get more than 20g carbs from animal products alone if I don’t drink milk so it’s just a guess this far. maybe I need experiments… I love those).

Oh, carby OMADer, I rarely hear about them! OMAD is easier the more carbs I consume but it still never lasts long (but when I discovered OMAD I already lost the ability to eat higher-carb for longer than a few days)… But on carnivore or close, OMAD has almost no chance even though I wish for it for reasons. It would be convenient if I could pull it off.

(Marianne) #30

I don’t think AA actively promotes the transference of addictions - at least I didn’t get that impression the few times I’ve gone. Granted, back in the 80’s when I worked for an inpatient drug and alcohol rehab center (mainly alcohol - drugs were just coming onto the scene as widespread addiction problems [crack, meth], many programs did recommend eating hard candy or sugar when alcohol cravings occurred. This was to combat the absence of sugar that might help trigger a compulsion to drink.

Anyway, I know I have an addictive personality, as a lot of us do here - marijuana, food, cigarettes, sugar, alcohol. Right now I am controlling my alcohol consumption comfortably and it is working; I’m good with it. I have also become more careful about consuming artificial sweeteners and trying to limit that to just a taste in my coffee.

(Marianne) #31

Yup, that’s me, too. We don’t even have them in the house or I won’t touch them if I am at a party and is a bowl of nuts. I don’t have a ton of “keto” food that is like that, but there are definitely some.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #32

Not sure what you mean by “transference,” but there are a lot of “Anonymous” programmes out there, and most of them have adapted A.A.'s Twelve Steps to fit their particular addiction. It is true that A.A. meetings often discourage excessive talk of drugs, but that is because the programme’s primary expertise lies solely in dealing with alcohol. The physical effects of the addictions may be similar, but there are social pressures involved that are quite different. That is why many people are members of both Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anyonymous.

(Edith) #33

That was me and Diet Coke. I tried to quit many times over the years and always started back up, usually with an excuse, and always with a “II’ll just have a small.” I even had triggers to wanting it when I did give it up.

I quit it again last November. So far, I’ve been a good girl, but just recently, I was really wanting some. :woman_shrugging: I did do the transference thing with unsweetened iced tea when I first quit. But, while I enjoy the iced tea, it is not “the same”, so it is slowly fading away.

(Marianne) #34

I thought someone had mentioned that AA resulted in unconscientiously switching to another substance (transference) - i.e., alcohol to cigarettes, cigarettes to food, etc.

(Marianne) #35

Yup; I get it. My thing is after doing a lot of yard work, I tell myself I “deserve” one can of pop. If I have one, so what? My intent is not to, and most of the time I succeed. If I falter once or twice, so be it. Not going to beat myself up about it. There could be worse things. Some may see that as a cop out, but I don’t.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #36

I suppose it happens. But it’s more likely that people already had other addictions that came to the fore once alcohol was removed from the picture, and it would depend on what the person’s other addictions were.

For example, I never got addicted to nicotine, despite my best efforts. I never did drugs, but I could see myself getting hooked. Not a sex or gambling addict, so far as I can tell. Carb addiction? Most definitely! And long before I took my first drink.

(Kirk Wolak) #37

Hey, since I’ve struggled with this as well…
I did some brain (SPECT) scans with the Amen clinic. They pointed something out.
Aspartame is in Coke Zero, and it’s in their list of “Toxic to the brain” substances. As he reviewed some of the things he saw in the images (lets say the less than perfect images), he said he sees these in people drinking things with aspartame.

FWIW, they support low-carb, and encourage ZERO sugar.

But the image of “scars/damage” in my brain was very helpful. Not even an inkling.
he has no problem with caffeine, or even some other sweeteners. But this was a big no-no.

Honestly. Seeing that damage and realizing what MIGHT be at the root of it.
Makes it pretty easy to look at it and say “I’d rather have a Zevia, or a coffee, or something I know isn’t that!”…

(Marianne) #38

Ugh. Another thing that tastes good that we shouldn’t consume.

(Kirk Wolak) #39

Well, the interesting thing was that he was okay with other artificial sweeteners. He was good with Stevia (which I cannot tolerate). He was not sure where sucralose fell.

But he suggested I find/make my own. There is a Zero Calorie, Unsweetened Caffeinated drink. It’s like LaCroix, but caffeinated! So it has a flavor component that’s very light. I find that I drink a LOT less because it’s not sweet… And I am good with that.

Thinking about making my own…

(Laurie) #40

I enjoy one can (sometimes two) of Zevia per day. I water it down 50:50. Apparently most diet pops have a lot of things wrong with them besides the sweeteners – phosphoric acid, for example. But Zevia has almost no bad stuff.

I’m mostly carnivore. I can’t eat most plant foods, and I have to restrict dairy. Do I feel deprived? Yes I do. I was never a soda junkie, but I really appreciate having a Zevia every day.

Addict? Oh yeah. It never took the form of alcohol or drug addiction though.

As for whether AA encourages taking up other addictions, no it doesn’t. I do know of individual sponsors, etc., suggesting that a newcomer load up on candy though.