Diet Pop

(Marianne) #1

Lately, I started having a can of diet pop every day. One has become two now, and yesterday I decided to chill a 2-liter bottle of diet root beer in my champagne bucket with ice, and drink it outside in a champagne glass like I used to do with actual champagne. It was delicious and a real treat, however, unlike champagne, I didn’t sip and and drank a lot. I figure, at least I wasn’t drinking alcohol.

So, can someone tell me again what is the deal with consuming diet pop? I know it can trigger an insulin spike because of the sugary taste, but other than that, is it really that harmful in moderation?

Thanks, everyone!

(Joey) #2

Insulin reaction is very individualized. If you really want to know your own body’s reaction to this particular sweetener, try a glucose test immediately before, and then every 1/2 hour or so after drinking a full glass on an other empty/fasted stomach.

If your glucose level drops sharply, there’s a good chance you’ve invited an insulin surge that’s suppressing serum glucose. No reaction would indicate it’s not adversely spiking your glucose. (I detected zero reaction when testing a big dose of pure stevia in my own n=1 case.)

I’ll leave it to others to share thoughts on why avoiding regularly ingestion of volumes of artificial chemicals manufactured by industrial plants may not be wise.

As for the champagne flutes, I can’t think of a better beverage choice to fill them with besides champagne. :clinking_glasses: What a missed opportunity :wink:

#3

I don’t touch the stuff (pop), diet or otherwise, anymore.

But I do drink a ‘slimlline’ non carb mixer in my gin, when I’m off.

Sounds bad?

I have no idea.
All I know, for me, it has worked out better for me than what I was doing peviously.

#4

It’s fine, keep in mind the keto definition of a “spike” is moving at all, which is laughable. For most the artificial sweeteners are fine, even if they do cause an insulin (rise), so what? It goes back down. Don’t worry about nothing. Insulin isn’t your enemy. The irrational fear of Insulin in the keto world goes hand in hand with the fear of protein and evil gluconeogeneisis, which almost never happens to a degree that actually matters. I’m literally sucking down a Diet A&W right now! (Damn right in a frosted mug too)! Friggen love this crap!

I miss getting the real A&W ones on tap! No diet that way though.

(Joey) #5

Am curious: Missing good old regular A&W (non-diet), why deprive yourself? If insulin isn’t an issue, is refraining from what you enjoy meant to restrict carbs? Or perhaps to reduce calories? Some other motivation?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #6

Well, since the point of restricting carbohydrate intake is to lower insulin and keep it low for as much of the day as possible, it seems counter-productive to intentionally raise insulin. Lfod has a point, however, that it is chronically elevated insulin that does the damage. Insulin is meant to rise and fall during the day as we eat and then spend time between meals, but the sort of sharp spike we are talking about is not good. For one thing, if it leads to a hypoglycaemic episode, that puts a strain on the body that is not helpful. And even if it doesn’t, an insulin spike is still going to halt ketogenesis and gluconeogenesis, and the brain is going to need fuel.

#7

Not being afraid of insulin, and using up half my carb alotment on a drink that’s gone in 2mins are different things :wink: Even on lifting days where I eat more carbs, I’d rather them be from food. Plus, when you drink the real thing it’s harder to like the diet, which normal still tastes pretty good to me.

(Marianne) #8

Once again, thanks everyone for your input. :hugs:

You are right; I have thought of this and it’s kind of a bummer. Oh, well…

Actually, since retiring three years ago, I started drinking alcoholic beverages every day (mainly champagne back then as I got conflicting information from the internet about how many carbs were in a glass [not from this forum!]). Anyway, I had so many pleasurable associations with sipping champagne (or copious amounts of alcohol). I really enjoyed sitting on the deck in all kinds of weather and enjoying nature and our yard or a fire in the firepit sipping a cocktail. Not the same with a glass of water. Many months ago I stopped the champagne and switched to straight rum (because it was zero carb). Again, consuming too much, and I learned from here that although straight spirits have no carbs, alcohol metabolizes first versus fat (notwithstanding it also isn’t good for the liver in large amounts or as a regular practice).

So, yesterday, I discovered that it was wonderful sitting outside enjoying my diet root beer chilled in a champagne bucket and drank from a champagne flute. It’s so delicious and a real treat while not awakening my sugar demon. I think one key to not consuming too much is to quench any thirst beforehand with water and make sure I am sufficiently hydrated. At this point, I’ll trade the diet pop for daily alcohol. I’m still going to have cocktails when I meet with the girlies every couple of months.

#9

Ahh, summertime. What a great set up @gingersmommy. Sunshine, relaxing, bubbles…

An Italian friend suggested drinking different types of vinegar mixed with bubbly mineral water, and if wanted, trial a squeeze of a quarter (or less) fruit of different types of lemons and limes (there are so many varieties). Then leave the rind in the glass for a splash of colour and as a volatile oil emitter. The vinegars are basically a short chain fatty acid drink. That means drinking ketone building blocks. And adding vinegar, usually in the evening, has been shown to lower waking, fasting blood glucose. Vinegar is a fruit fermentation (I think?).

It’s a sipper!

Do the same set up with a sunny place, a great outlook, a good podcast or book, a groovy wrap, a funky hat, and an ice bucket.

After trialling many vinegars and lemon/lime combinations, I found a cocktail that tasted better than any manufactured bubbles and named the recipe: “brown bear”.

As a side slip, and a keto thorn, carnivores can add the teeniest amount of honey, if they are chasing sweet. But I found that with the removal of sweet cravings on keto, the complex flavours that are revealed in these cocktail chemistry experiments are a whole new world of satisfaction and nutrition-based hydration.

#10

Apart from what has been mentioned, I remember reading the acids (citric acid, phosphoric acid etc) used in diet sodas can still cause teeth bone calcium loss. I think particularly if long term and if sipped on throughout the day.

(Marianne) #11

Thank you; I can try it. How much vinegar do you use in a glass?

(Kirk Wolak) #12

Well, first, it’s really addictive… You start with 1 can, then 2.
My daily limit is about 4 Liters, because I run out of “day”.
It always starts with one bottle, then a 2L, then about 4L/day.

If ever there was a trigger food. Now SOME people tolerate it.
For me, it destroys my ketones (honestly, it’s not ZERO carbs, and at 4L, I am sure it exceeds my 5g/day goal)…

Furthermore, I find that it throws off my electrolytes. I fought with cramps for the first 3+ years of going keto. Without soda. Finally got straightened out, and the worse cramps I have had (imagine a crippling leg pain with your foot rolled in) was when I was having that junk.

For me, I have to avoid it. It also makes it hard to fast. My neighbor noticed this as well. Finally, it makes me crave salty stuff. Hmm, wonder who benefits from all of that… Not me!

The challenge is it has a wonderful mouth feel to me. I just kicked it as a habit again.
Going for a 1yr break before I start another 1yr break from it.

Anything sweet can trigger enough insulin to dampen your ketones. And you don’t even have to swallow it!

#13

A splish, which is about half a splash, and much less than a splosh. A splosh would be too much when starting out.

#14

I should try vinegar in water again… But I can’t find my fav tarragon white wine vinegar since months and apple cider vinegar isn’t good. Oh well, I am fine with my lemonades, great drinks.
Sweetening: it’s a drink, not candy so nope. Both water and lemon are sweet anyway… A tiny bit… To me. My lemonade isn’t really sweet (but it has my own mint leaves in it! cool). I need to eat lemons alone to feel them sweet, actually. And WAY more sour, yep. I love sour.
But I could handle some erythritol or xylitol if I really wanted it in my drinks. Still loads better than some supermarket stuff (that even uses plastic. I so hate throwing out much plastic so I don’t do that. The remaining amount is bad enough. I already can’t buy any meat I want due to the excessive use of plastic. No way I buy any drink if plastic is involved, more than the one for my carbonated water where the same bottle gets reused zillion times.)

Drinks are no problem, there are SO MANY! I have a bunch of different teas, I can drink coffee (despite I wanna kind of quit…), even hot cocoa is I really want… I have carbonated water (I use it for all my fruit juice drinks)…

Of course it’s different after more than a decade without those sweet weird drinks (never was a fan. I liked some but a few times a year was enough)… But I do need variety regarding my drinks. And I have it, awesome.

Liters of those things, well I can’t consider it even remotely healthy. It’s some serious addiction. and I would feel guilty if I had no immunity because I drink so many coffees instead proper water… And my coffees are extremely weak, sometimes I feel my black (brown-ish) coffee sweetish…

(I am drinking a coffee right now because I am hungry a bit but doesn’t want to eat yet. It has an egg only as I forgot the butter.)

Wow. I can’t drink that much liquid… Okay I did it once, it wasn’t good.
And don’t normal people get disgusted from sweet flavors eventually? I always had a huge sweet tooth but there are limits…

But I don’t avoid sweet things. If I fancy them, I eat them. I almost never fancy them on very low-carb, I still eat some here and there but for other reasons, not the sweetness. And they get boring and annoying very quickly. (Unlike in my high-carb past.)

:rofl:

I am a bit lazy to find the topic with good sayings but this one totally belongs there!
But I definitely plan to use these from now on. Hopefully I won’t forget.

(Marianne) #15

:laughing::hugs:

#16

you are heading straight into a backslide and ya know it and you don’t need me to tell ya just that. fake sugar back first cause it ‘is ok’ for now and then boom…might not be you but??? keep those eyes wide open here please :slight_smile: cause I did the same and paid dearly so word of warning and catch yourself right now when the catching is easier!

#17

Don’t forget PUFAs!

(Kirk Wolak) #18

I wouldn’t list PUFAs with that? Especially man-made from seed oils.
Those might actually be worse than sugar!

(Kirk Wolak) #19

While I agree, there is a subtle thing here… We have people who are NOT getting the results expected. (If I drink diet sodas, I can kiss weight loss good bye!).

Yes, 90% of people shouldn’t fear the protein or the gluconeogenesis. But 90% of the people STALLING OUT or not working that have their macros under control have to figure out WHAT IS WRONG. I was one of those people. Subtle food allergies are my #1 cause. A VERY low (5g/day) tolerance for carbs (improving over time).

And crazy high glucose readings from THINKING/FOCUSING or STRESS.
I have tested 30 point swings in Glucose between PROGRAMMING and taking a break to meditate! Picking right back up when I start programming.

Crazy side note: the CGM missed ALL of it. This was NOT interstitial glucose (which I consider my RESERVE Glucose. When that lowers, I feel tired/sleepy). My blood glucose is what fuels my brain. I now realize that the work I am doing REQUIRES a lot more glucose than I thought. Even in ketosis. (in fact with HIGH ketones, and LOW glucose… I cannot program, my thoughts are muddied).

So, the thought of how important this is… Is really a function of perspective. If it impacts you, it might be REALLY important. I do better on HIGH FAT than on high protein. Protein fills me up, but fat really satiates me. If I eat too lean, I get hungry again.

I am jealous you can have diet soda…

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #20

Gary Taubes talks a lot about the “cephalic-phase” insulin response, which basically means that a sweet taste sets the brain up to cause the pancreas to release insulin to combat the expected glucose rise from the sweetness.

I suspect that the degree to which this operates is highly individual, but that some of what people experience as certain artificial sweeteners “causing an insulin spike” is the result of their sensitivity to one or more such sweeteners over others. In other words, I am speculating that not only does this cephalic-phase insulin response vary from individual to individual, but it varies in response to different sweeteners.