Develop a “test” of your “keto”


(juice says call it "carb withdrawal' NOT 'keto flu" - reframe it positively) #41

It also means different things at different points along the way, which also confounds things. I love being reductionist more than most - #becausejournalist - but it’s just not possible in a lot of instances.

But the key, early on, is to make sure people are eating enough, not worrying about them eating too much.

(Regina) #42

What I love about keto is it takes no will power. When god passed out willpower I was apparently nowhere to be found!! When I started putting on weight at menopause I think my longest “diet” attempt lasted about an hour! :rofl::rofl::rofl:. Keto, effortless. But that’s why I can’t wrap my mind around people trying to “diet” per say on keto because the WOE is obviously not a diet in the traditional sense of the word. By the same token it’s not an invitation to stuff oneself to the gills. I would love to bring “moderation in all things” to the argument but it seems hard to get that point across to some newbies. Anyway, I’m rambling. But I remain in the tracking camp. If nothing else it’s fun. So is testing blood glucose and ketones. In fact, today, my keto mojo glucose strips arrived and I am going to compare readings between that and my one touch. All in a day’s fun! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:. Don’t worry, keto didn’t addle my brain. On the way to conceiving my daughter I went through so many pregnancy test strips my husband was worried we would have to file for bankruptcy. I’m just weird that way.

(juice says call it "carb withdrawal' NOT 'keto flu" - reframe it positively) #43

I’m tracking 100 percent as well, and your message is a good one, but newbies have to be reassured that they need to eat (and track, so they know they’re not eating too many carbs).


Doesn’t matter as long as it’s Organic :smirk:


The problem isn’t the diet/WOE, it’s peoples perception of it.
Most people (I’m guessing) try this initially, as a way to lose weight. Mostly because they are a lot overweight (like me :roll_eyes: ). They are mostly over weight because they eat too much of the wrong foods, and not stopping when they’re full or have had enough, is a big part of that.

I think it’s fair to say that most overweight people don’t really know what satiety feels like. They associate the time to stop with ‘oh I couldn’t eat another thing, I’m full’. Which is too late.

If we tell these people ‘calories don’t count, you can eat until you’re full’. They might hear ‘I can eat until I’m bursting again’ which is too much.

(Bob M) #46

I’d be careful with the term “dairy”, as this can mean milk, sour cream, aged cheeses, cream, soft cheeses, hard cheeses, yogurt, butter, etc. I eat some of these, although my mind is not made up on dairy. (And don’t attempt to get into A1 and A2 proteins, how possibly insulinogenic the proteins are, etc.)

As for popcorn, it doesn’t seem to make my blood sugar go up, but I eat it very rarely.

(Bob M) #47

Oh yeah, avoid getting into too much detail on protein snd fat ratios. I myself have gone from very high fat (think fat bombs) to relatively high protien, low fat (no fat bombs, few fatty keto meals, more low fat, high protein meats). I’d avoid O6/O3/PUFA too.

(Bob M) #48

Ugh…ignore the mispellings. I hate typing on a phone.

(Alex N.) #49

Assuming that people are wrong when stressed about Keto not working is a big turnoff.

Of course, friendly advice on being careful about hidden carbs is good. But in my opinion “tracking macros” doesn’t work for most people, without burnout or without developing a serious eating disorder.

Unless you eat the same thing daily, I can’t imagine fiddling with a stupid app to tell me the macros I’m eating, then being frustrated that I can’t find the food I’m searching for and struggling to make a reasonable guess. Successful diets are those that can fit into a person’s life and tracking macros doesn’t fit, as we’ve got better things to do.

It’s much better IMO to classify foods as:

  • OK in unlimited quantities
  • OK-ish, but in moderation
  • not OK

Took me 2-3 weeks to figure out which is which. Still learning, but you basically get a list of keto friendly foods and start from there.

It’s not rocket science though. You only need to read the label. All labels are required to state the nutritional content.

Also if you have a blood glucose meter you can test your reaction to foods that you’re not sure of.

If I’m going to answer no, would that mean I’m not doing keto?

How would I know? Do people need to do expensive medical tests to get on Keto? I hope not. I don’t even think I can find such a clinic where I live now.

It would actually be easier for me to get ketone blood test strips and measure if I’m actually in nutritional ketosis.

I don’t understand that. Do you mean Keto should be 5% carbs? Keto is up to 20 or 25 grams of carbs daily. Some people can tolerate up to 50 grams of carbs, but between 0 and 25 is the maximum we all should be striving for, because our own tolerance to foods and the metabolic rate depend on a lot of variables and vary over time. You can do 10 grams or 15 grams tops by measuring your reaction to food, which isn’t hard to do.

A “well formulated ketogenic diet” does not deal with carbs as percentages.

You don’t have to feel, a glucose monitor can tell you that and it’s pretty cheap.


Oh Screenack, what have you done :woozy_face:
Already so many differing opinions…

(juice says call it "carb withdrawal' NOT 'keto flu" - reframe it positively) #51


Righty. That is a lot easier than learning about the diet and using an app, trial and error based on taking a blood glucose reading.

Way too many people don’t want to bother with learning, and that’s a shame, because this, of all things, is something they should make an effort for.

(You cannot outrun a bad diet) #52

My point is we shouldn’t assume the neophyte is right or wrong, but a jumble of facts and fiction. It’s almost axiomatic that a neophyte is going to be more poorly formed in their understanding.

As Dr Berry points out, labels are misleading. 0.9 carbs in a small serving size allows the food manufacturer to round down to 0 on the label. Which, incidentally, is why I am against “net” carbs. My suspicion is that frequent stalls have to do with net carbs, but that’s for another thread.

Just seeing this comment:

I would argue this is too esoteric or intermediate-level for what I’m thinking. Many neophytes presume fruits are OK, because, insert poorly-formed reason here. I’m also with @alexelcu, I don’t calculate nor track my macros. I was, but, enough already.

Yea, but this is good stuff. I also learn when the titans battle. We’re also debating with a lot of n=1 anecdotes but fleshing this out helps us help newbies out.


I don’t know, maybe maybe not, the answer will vary depending on the person. The point is, it’s useful tool to help you figure out if your in the 5% or not. If you don’t measure it how will you know?

It’s not a fixed amount though, it’s a percentage for a reason. 20g is an average, and many people don’t fit the average - 5% means 5% of your calories come from carbs. So you need to know how many calories you’re eating, and then convert that to grams to know.

E.g. For me, if I eat 25g carbs a day I will only be in light ketosis and not efficiently carb adapt. I’m small and my resting metabolic rate is 1000kcals a day. 5% carbs for me, if I eat the full 1000kcal, is a minuscule 12.5g- half the average. 2 cups of tea with milk and I’ve already used half of them. 1 avocado has 17g of carbs. Hopefully after I’m adapted again I can up my calorie intake and maybe go to 10%, but I’ll probably go carnivore.

I could easily have been one of those people posting that my keto diet was failing and I wasn’t carb adapting and putting on weight even. The maths explained to me why and I resolved it myself, so I think the usefulness of understanding the numbers can’t be underestimated.

I don’t need to buy a glucose monitor, I can feel it and that’s free :wink:

(You cannot outrun a bad diet) #54

Dr. Westman’s point is it does not matter. Stick to his page 4 and you’re right where you need to be.

I’d go on to say that after the neophyte has spent a couple of months on this way of eating, and experiences that he or she has been fed a boatload of lies about fat and meat, he or she may want to dive deeper for personal edification. Or, they may also continue on, unaware of whether they are in ketosis, and see improved markers and weight-loss, anyhow.

I hate arguing against more data, yet, we may be over-complicating this.The more noise we add, the more we dilute the essentials of what beginners need to know.


We’ll have to agree to disagree. I haven’t heard of Dr Westman or what his page 4 is, so I can’t comment, but if you want to propose questions based on them maybe I can see where that’s coming from?

I don’t really see how finding out what 5% of caloric intake in carb grams is ‘noise’. It’s one data point, not exactly a deluge of info to work through. I also think it’s unfair to underestimate and diminish new people to assume they couldn’t work that out. As @alexelcu said, “It’s not rocket science”.
It’s relevant and precise data that without, as far as I’ve been seeing, people give up on keto because they think they’re following the plan correctly, but have no idea they’re overeating on the carbs. As indeed I was, when I ate 20g a day. Doesn’t apply to a lot of people, I’m sure, but that doesn’t mean setting that as a question can’t help them be aware it’s a thing - they can always skip it, right?

(You cannot outrun a bad diet) #56

Oh, my. This isn’t a detail. You should familiarize yourself with his work, and not because I think so. He’s as close to core as it get, along with Atkins, Taubes and Noakes, with the science and evidence about all things LCHF/Keto.

(Regina) #57

But you do need to calculate or weigh sometimes. The “up to four ounces of cheese?” I was probably doubling that at times. And if a beginner does not want to weigh or measure there are sites that show pictures of different portion sizes. One thing not mentioned anywhere on page four is nuts. How does Dr. Westman feel about nuts?

(Regina) #58

I totally agree. Tracking should be used in combination with eating enough.

(juice says call it "carb withdrawal' NOT 'keto flu" - reframe it positively) #59

Couldn’t agree more. “Know what you’re eating, and know you’re eating enough.”

(Regina) #60

The purpose of this thread was how to help beginners. Why is it getting so complicated?. Dr. Westman’s page four in conjunction with the Dudes’ “Keto in a nutshell” is all that is needed to orient beginners. A quiz could easily be written based on the Dudes’ info.