December 2018 ZORNFAST

[Brenda]

Day 5 of this fast for me, hour 112. This is the first time I’ve ever done a back-to-back extended fast. I have much more energy, much more Euphoria, much less waves of hunger. It’s been very easy! I feel very grateful. For those of you that don’t know, I did a 5-day fast last week, and did my refeeding over the weekend. I’ll be doing the same this time.

[Brenda]

I’ll be breaking this five-day fast in a few hours. Like I said, I’ve never done two extended fasts back-to-back like this. Some amazing things happened today. I normally lift tuesday and friday mornings. I use ten machines and cover all muscle groups. Today I broke my personal best on four machines. I also had people approach me when I was on the free weight leg press pushing 670 today. One person wanted to take a video. Yeah, how about no. Lol
I got a pat on the back and a fist bump by two others. My record is 810 but I plan to hit 900 in 2019.
I talked to my IDM team because I’m just so amazed what’s happening to me this week. Megan Ramos @meganjramos says it’s adrenaline and HGH. She says I’m just becoming more and more fat adapted. How fat adapted can I get? I’ve been ketogenic 5 years! But this fasting, it’s just magical, and I’m building lean mass like crazy. I decided today there’s no way I’m 55 years old. More like 25. I just had another dexa scan and an RMR done. I’ll get another just before Low Carb Denver first week of March. I’m hoping to break my former accomplishment of gaining 4 pounds lean mass in 4 months. I’m hoping to gain much more just because I like to shock and awe. I’m all about that. When people approached me at the gym today I told them I was 5 days water fasted. They almost fell over. They just couldn’t wrap their head around it. God I love that.

[anon13588705]

When people approached me at the gym today I told them I was 5 days water fasted. They almost fell over. They just couldn’t wrap their head around it. God I love that.

I love it too!
Thank you for sharing this experiment’s results when they come through!
I am grateful that you’re doing this because it is a logical next step for me (once you have completed the experiment) and the information you are mining is exactly what I have wanted to know, but didn’t know who to ask, so will be following closely.
I am type 2 diabetic but have got myself turned around and I will join your monthly fasts now I have found you on here.
Congratulations on the RMR and I anticipate your experiment will be a roaring success, then I can follow in your foodsteps/watersteps.
I’m currently eating carnivore preparing for my next fast which will be with you at the end of December.
Planning to step it up in January when I have a gym and trainer’s supervision booked, so thought would try and read a bit on what is the best sequence of fasting and training, for building metabolic heath?
Very comfortable with fasting, not so good with planning, so will follow along with you guys now.
Glad you are here.

[goldwingnut]

Brenda you’re in beast mode in the gym (in a good way) and I admire that! I also actually consider you a friend, even though we’ve never met.

I have trouble adding lean mass. I often lift fasted, (usually in fact) and try to get a protein meal soon afterward.

I’m doing a Body By Science type of High Intensity Training, but only once a week. I sometimes DO move up in time under load or weights lifted, but it seems slow. I started resistance training in August of 2017.

I started KETO on Dec 29, 2016 @ 322 pounds, and I usually weigh about 170 now. I consider myself skinny-fat.

Any advice???

[Brenda]

Hey @goldwingnut, you definitely are a fellow biker friend, but to be a true friend you really should tell me your first name LOL. You know mine after all.

Any advice for you? I can tell you what works for me. It sounds like everything you’re doing is fine. I don’t do any aerobic or high intensity training at all. I lift fasted, at least 15 hours fasted, twice a week. I discovered that rest and recovery days are just as important as lifting days. I also don’t aim for multiple reps, I aim for lifting heavy. I do 10 different lifts for 10 different muscle groups. Each lift is 10 reps x 2. I keep a record of my last weight lifted, I set it at that, and if it seems too easy and I think I can add 5 lb or 10 pounds, I do. Sometimes I’m not able to add any weight for a few months and certain muscle groups are more difficult to gain strength at than others. Women have more superior lower body strength and men, upper body strength. It’s no wonder then on all of the machines that target the muscle groups in the legs have been increasing in weight quite often for me. Things like deltoids and pecs (yes women have pecs) are much harder. Triceps and biceps I do pretty well. Abdominal not so much. So it’s about building strength, not repetitions. And everyone is different. For my whole routine, I’m usually done in less than an hour and a half. I do swim laps but I only do that because it’s meditative not because I’m trying to burn calories (haha) or any other reason.
I don’t follow any program, matter of fact I’ve never once read a bodybuilding or strength training book or blog. I figured this out on my own and once I discovered it was working I’m not interested in reading any other methods.
As far as fasting goes, multiple-day fasts will put you deeper into fat adaptation, with a nice release of HGH at the end. So fasting more often may help you reach your goals. For anyone reading, HGH, human growth hormone, is what builds muscle.
And why do you call yourself skinny fat? That’s usually what we refer to as a tofi. Thin on the outside fat on the inside. Have you ever had a dexa scan? If you have access to one it’s very much well worth it. The DexaFit company in Minnesota not only can measure bone density, lean mass and body fat percentage, it can also measure visceral fat to the gram. My center also does RMR, resting metabolic rate and one other test that runners use. Knowing those measurements will help you greatly. How are you certain that you’re not gaining lean mass?
To build muscle after your fast, you don’t have to eat directly after lifting, but obviously you have to eat adequate protein daily. Calculate your protein by multiplying .6 grams of protein with your kilograms of body weight. That’s what IDM uses and that’s what Dr Fung recommends. I’m sure your protein intake is adequate.
That’s the best I can offer you for now but stay in touch, if I think of anything else that might be helpful I’ll let you know.

[Brenda]

I was about to turn my phone off for the morning and go about my business of making coffee and visiting my mama. But I see you are typing, @goldwingnut, so I will wait to read your reply…

[goldwingnut]

And here’s my reply!

Stan.

Stan I am, And I do like ALL Eggs, and Ham. (Never had 'em green though)

I can still remember reading Dr. Seuss as a kid, like it was yesterday.

Thanks for the lengthy reply!

My wife was a Phys Ed major in college and thinks my lifting regime is FAR less than adequate.

However, I feel really good, and enjoy the benefits of what I do, but I just need to keep moving forward. I’ll be 65 in April and for however many days I have left, I’d like to be healthy and productive…as far as is humanly possible.

I don’t do cardio either.

I might try to modify my regimen.

I had a DEXA done in Wichita a few months ago, and will repeat it in another few months…to check my progress. I only had (by the numbers) 2-ish pounds of visceral fat, and about 30 pounds of total fat stores. But I’m defintely flabby and lacking in muscle.

[Brenda]

Hi Stan the man!
Your DXA results sound good, do you mind telling me how tall you are and what your LBM is? I don’t think there’s any reason why you couldn’t build lean mass I would just recommend lifting as heavy as you’re able and resting minimum 2 days in between. I’m 55 years old so I don’t push it to the point where I exhaust myself with my lifting each week. When I’m at the gym, do I lift as much as I possibly can and as many times as I feel reasonable? Yes. I believe this is what is building lean mass combined with my fasting. I would definitely recommend lifting fasted minimum 10 hours, try for 15. And do extended fasts as often as you can. I used to do one three or four day fast a month and I was able to build 4 pounds of lean mass between each 4 month DXA these last 20 months. I’m trying to do even more now because I’m crazy and I love to challenge myself. And then I love to shock-and-awe when I get fantastic results. I’ve been real lucky so far. When you say you’re flabby do you mean you’re weak with no muscle under there? Or do you have loose skin because you lost an enormous amount of weight? Do you know about autophagy? Fasting more will tighten up that skin. I know it’s hard to believe but Dr. Fung has fasted thousands of patients and many have lost a hundred pounds or more and no one has had to have skin removal surgery because the autophagy eventually tightens up that skin. I don’t mean to get too personal but you started it LOL
Note: For maximum benefits with skin tightening and fasting for autophagy, it’s important to eat a moderate amount of protein so your body can scavenge protein from the excess skin.

[Brenda]

@goldwingnut
I just edited that so go back and read especially the end

[Brenda]

I’m going to start my coffee. I just bought a Aero press but I still haven’t taken the time to learn how to use it yet. I guess they’re great on biking trips especially camping.

[Brenda]

This is funny, watching you type. I’ll check back between coffee-making to see if your comment is up yet LOL

[goldwingnut]

Yes, I am up to speed on your last posting info and IDM, Autophagy and etc.

I will have to go back and look up my DEXA for those numbers.

NO! NOT TOO PERSONAL!

I have pretty low (free) testosterone and that is a problem with gaining lean mass. My KETO friendly doctor, says Testosterone is “GO JUICE” for us guys, and It stuck with me.

I don’t do free weights, so the numbers are different for the machines. But I’d say my upper body strength is really quite inadequate.

I’m 6’2" at this point…having shrunk about an inch. (aging)

Yes, I have loose skin. Mostly around my middle and my thighs. Autophagy has not helped a lot with that so far, but I am a FIRM believer. And honestly, I feel like Superman…and more so as time goes on. NOT LESS!

I’ll go look up my dexa, but right now, my browser is about to crash.

[goldwingnut]

I just sent a Dexa Pdf via PM.

Doing my next Extended Fast this upcoming week. My regular WOE is 20 and 4.

Sure wish I could go see my Mom. Both my folks have passed away.

Saturday is a make up day for me at my shop. Gotta run!

[Digital_Dave]

Just got back from Texas Road House a little while ago, where the wife and I went out for our Anniversary. Had a nice meal and was a good time, now it’s time to get back to it. - Officially Fasting again! Just coming up on 4 hrs., but plan to run this one for a bit…

[goldwingnut]

Congrats on the Anniversary Dave!

Our 40th is coming up the end of May. (Wow, that sounds like a long time)

is that a new avatar? I’m a Dog Lover.

[Digital_Dave]

Thanks. Been together 36, but married 32 … and yeah, Dog lover here as well. It’s my Male Pup, Kito. Just figured to change it up some. Here’s the full image that I’m using.

Here’s all three of them. They’re sisters and brother, but the darker one (Shelby) is 1-1/2 years older than the two younger siblings. …And no, Kito is not trying to eat his Sister.

As far as Fasting, I actually went ahead and ate something a little while ago. After waking early and then working outside for a few hours this morning, (32 degrees) I wasn’t feeling all that well. More like a run down feeling, but thought maybe some food would help? Not sure if it did, but after eating I actually fell asleep for a hour, and am feeling a bit better. … Been trying to get back out to work on Christmas lights, but been snowing all day now.

[GentleBen]

Brenda, turned in a 4-day water-fast last week. Refed the past three days, ending with a good
[spoiler] Cajun gumbo (no rice, bread, crackers or potato salad, just the soup and meat) plus some Swerve crusted pecans. [/spoiler]

Now right back into hour 5 of another multi-day fast. Will see how it goes.

Only bad part is Ive been seeing some really low weight losses and regains (lose 6, regain 5.5). Hoping to see some more even results this time.

[Brenda]

Hey Ben, you have to blur any talk of food in this fasting thread. I did it for you.

I’m going to start another five-day fast tomorrow. 4 days is really good I’m glad you went that far. Do you feel good? As far as the regain, remember part of that gain is the weight of food in your gut and part of that gain is the weight of water with rehydration.

[Brenda]

Speaking of food, I feasted really well this weekend @GentleBen.
[spoiler] I had bacon, eggs and sausage Saturday morning, a small dish of egg salad Saturday afternoon, I also fixed myself a beautiful spicy Indian masala beef. Sunday almond meal polenta, a fried chicken thigh and also lamb breast. Lots of fried peppers and even fried cheese![/spoiler]
I miss flavors during the week when I’m fasting so I have a variety. Interesting thing is I can’t eat much so I have just many different foods. I begin my 5-day fast tomorrow. I don’t feel deprived. One of the things that really helps me is paying close attention to hydration and supplementing salt. The last two five-day fasting weeks have gone very well.
I don’t get on the scale, but I know autophagy is happening. And I know I’m burning at least a half a pound of body fat a day because that’s just how it works. I’m not worried about the scale. I’m more interested in release of HGH and burning more body fat.

[Digital_Dave]

Well, I tried to start a Fast after our Anniversary Dinner Saturday night, but ended up just doing something like 18-20 hrs. or so. Was out working early Sunday morning and just wasn’t feeling to hot, so after a few hours of this, I went ahead and ate something hoping it might help some. (Which I guess it did, but not all that much) Still feeling slightly ‘Blah’ at the moment, but at least back to fasting after eating last night’s meal.

So presently just over 16 hrs. and hoping to run this one for a while…