Dear Science, please explain....!

(torie) #1

I’m at my wit’s end here.

I’ve been keto for many years. I lost a good few kilos. Yay me. But never got down to my goal weight. I had a period of very stressful times and slacked on the cycling and stopped tracking (but kept keto). Then I had a hysterectomy. Not sure that’s important, but there you go.

And I’ve gained weight… and have continued to gain even after going back to tracking, keeping my carbs and calories in check (under 20 carbs, usually around 1500 calories a day). I’ve also increased my cycling from 40 minutes 3 times a week to about 2 hours 4 times a week (from 15km to about 40km a day!).

The science I need explaining is this:
I eat dinner around 7pm. I wake up at 7:30am, have a coffee. Usually get my butt in gear to cycle 40km at 9:30 until 11:30. I have another coffee (black coffee, not bulletproof!) when I get back. I just drink water on the bike, no energy drinks. I burn, according to my Garmin, around 2000 calories during this fasted cycle ride.

I have lunch not until about 1pm, so it’s Intermittent Fasting.

I am not losing weight. In fact, some days my weight is higher. I am not talking a few kilos overweight - I’m about 30 kilos overweight - minimum.

So what gives? Technically I’m doing everything correctly.

WHY IS SCIENCE FAILING ME? :slight_smile:

Thanks for any insight you lovely knowledgable people!!!

(Tom Seest) #2

Have you tried eating more protein and fat?

(torie) #3

Like, up’ing my calories or replacing what I do eat?

Typical lunch for me is salad (today spinach leaves), with tomato, a little bit of mango, black olives, lots of olive oil and a chicken burger patty. I suppose I could add cheese for the more protein and fat, but was trying to keep away from cheese…

I always assumed that as I HAVE a lot of fat, that my body would grab the needed fat from there. Seriously. There’s loads. Help yourself, body!

(Chris) #4

I’d definitely up your calories. Your body has adapted to running on less, so keeping it the same or reducing further won’t really do much. Sure, you may put on some weight initially, but you’ll get up to the point where you’ve trained your body to burn more (also, cycling again will help with this), so the next time you go back to a deficit, it could end up looking like 2200 instead, and the weight will most likely melt off. You’ve got to have periods of hypercaloric if you’re going to go so hypo. Long periods of hypo = adaptation.

(Tom Seest) #5

I would eat more food, but that’s me. With that level of exercise, you’re probably down regulating your metabolism on that low of food intake.

The type of food would be up to you.

The change in your hormonal make up will mess with your weight, and fat retention for quite some time, so prepare for the long ride and not a short ride.

But, that’s just my opinion.

(the cheater) #6

I think we need to see a more complete food diary; looks like you’re only eating carbs and a tiny amount of protein. You say you’re keto, but you’re eating mango (easily one of the sweetest fruits) and tomato. Also, olives have about a gram of carbs per 4 olives… I mean, I don’t think you’re WAY off base in your carbs if this is all you have and you keep your servings reasonable (and still maintain fewer than 20g carbs/day), but we’ll have to see.

Honestly, to me it just sounds like you need a tune up - and you’ll be back in business in no time! Do you enjoy that much cycling, by the way? That sounds super excessive unless it’s a favored past time. Sorry, I hope I don’t come across as judgy - I just want to help you get where you want to be :smiley:

(torie) #7

Yeah… the fruit thing is new. I am working with a naturopath (who is more Paleo than keto) and he suggested more carbs. But you are probably right that I’m slipping away from keto.

As for the cycling, I DO enjoy it, but to be fair, again, this is something he’s recommended. I’m a bit of an all-or-nothing chick. That’s not quite a good thing! hah. Plus, the tan is coming along tremendously…! The odd thing is, it doesn’t actually tire me out (much). I mean, that’s weird, right? Big girl on a bicycle for 40km you’d think I’d be shattered by the time I get home but I’m fine. Makes no sense to me!

Not judgy at all! You’re right. Maybe I’m less keto and more ‘low carb’ these days. Going back to basics might be the way forward…

I need to go back to tracking religiously on MFP and come back to it. I did that for years. My weight has been stalled (rising!) for a good year or two and I’ve tried switching things up a bit to get it moving. Blood tests show my cholesteral (which I still can’t spell) has come down, and Vitamin D has come up from stupidly low levels. So from that side of things, I’m doing something right. Just still overweight!

Also, it’s hot here. (I’m in Spain.) So trying to figure out how to raise the protein without actually cooking…! Debating on waking in the middle of the night just to food prep loads of chicken, boiled eggs, etc. Seriously. It’s that hot.

I will start tracking again and then share my food diary in the future. I’m sure my past of following every diet under the sun (not at the same time, mind!) has not helped me as I’m getting older…!

With regards to the hormone thing, even with the hysterectomy, I am still not in that dreaded menopause stage, so I’m really trying to sort everything out before I get there!! hahah

Thank you both!

(torie) #8

Ooo. This is exactly what the naturopath suggested… ish. Maybe I could try the MCT oil Bulletproof coffee thing for a while… in this heat, the thought of eating more terrifies me. The thought of gaining more at the moment also terrifies me, to be fair!

I’m a numbers girl… so if I up the calories, but reduce the carbs, to something like 1700-2000 while still cycling, for a couple of weeks (or more? or less?), do you think that would do it? Or are you talking more long term? Thank you so much!

(Chris) #9

I’d probably up it to 2000 right away, and then after another week maybe hit 2400 for 2 or 3 weeks. Then go down to something like 1900. But see how you feel and respond. Here’s a few videos that might help.

(the cheater) #10

One of the reasons I’ve never been a huge advocate of cardio exercise (even my keto-approving doctor agrees) is that cardio requires more and more work to get the same results. You have to go further, faster, and for longer to get the same workout you got the first day you did it. Your body adapts and it no longer benefits you; other than simply ‘being active’ and not sedentary.

Rather than cardio, you might look into spending a few months lifting weights. Change it up, you know? Build muscle that will burn fat :smiley:

#11

I agree with all of this. If you enjoy riding, keep doing it, but don’t think of it as a weight loss tool. Sounds like your under eating to me. I think your body will use up your stored fat, but only if it trusts you to re-feed it again. Otherwise it’s going to hang on to every bit.
You are already doing IF, but I think you need more a “feast” when you do eat. Especially with the extra cycling.

(Brian) #12

^^^^^ This…

(LeeAnn Brooks) #13

I suggest reading The Obesity Code. It’s an eye opener for the truth about exercize and the impact, or lack thereof I should say, on weight loss. I’m not surprised you’re gaining weight, but it should be lean muscle mass vs fat, so that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Exercise has so many health benefits. Unfortunately weight loss is not one of them. CICO does not work for weight loss.

(Chris Robertson) #14

Your body adapts to what you put into it and your body is not designed to lose weight so if you stay on any diet long enough you will eventually stop losing weight. Some people do find that they don’t gain weight when keto but don’t lose it either. When they combine keto and fasting they will lose weight when fasting and not gain any of it back while eating keto. Other people find that staying in ketosis for months at a time causes them to eventually feel sluggish and find that switching to moderate carb and moderate fat for a day or two revitalizes them giving them energy again and with the energy comes weight loss.

(LeeAnn Brooks) #15

And then, after 3 weeks of being strict and seeing no losses, one has a peanut butter mishap and BOOM, scale down.

It’s sort of like a cosmic joke that we’re the butt of.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #16

^^^^^ This. Up the protein and fats, use fatty meats. If you have to then use protein rich carbs, not sugary ones like mango. You can’t exercise hormonal issues away. Keto does help with those. I am post menopausal, took me a year to shed 30 lbs., I have been in maintenance within 3 lbs. of my goal weight for the last year and one month.

It does sound like you are not getting enough calories in, while we have lots of them stored our body can only process so many of them per day. Check out this blog by Richard on this topic:

(torie) #17

Okay… I’m heeding all your advice! I’m back to tracking on MyFitnessPal and have discovered that no, I’m not even reaching my (low) calorie goal…!!

So I’m going to revamp my diet. I DO enjoy the cycling so I’m going to stick to that, but eat more.

I mean, my body is all well and prepared for the Zombie Apocalypse/Worldwide Food Shortage, but that’s not important right NOW.

Many many many years ago I had a doctor tell me that I was clearly eating too much and that there was ‘no such thing as starvation mode’ as ‘no one came out of Auschwitz fat’. And even though I was horrified at what he said, I think that has always stuck with me so I still find it hard to accept that eating more will help me. EVEN THOUGH I’ve read all the books (well, most) and have fantastic knowledge on the subject, I seem to find it hard to apply it to my own life when doctors (still) are still telling me I’m clearly lying and eating too much and that’s why I can’t lose weight…

That article on fasting was very interesting… I did a three day fast a few months ago and found it incredibly easy as I do have quite a bit stored. It didn’t make a difference to my weight, but I was gobsmacked that I had so much energy…!

Thank you for your advice! I will keep you all updated. I KNOW you’re all on tenderhooks… hahah

(LeeAnn Brooks) #18

The difference between people who actually starve is they do not have access to more food. We do. Starvation mode slows down metabolism. It’s a guarantee it did for those people too or they would have died far sooner. But it also produces an increase in hunger hormones. Eventually those hormones will cause one to go back to increasing calories (if they have the food accessible to them).

And yes, we can starve ourselves thin if we have the will power to overcome those hormones. Anorexic people do it. But they have developed a psychological condition to be able to do so. It’s very unhealthy and I don’t recommend trying, but they are very small minority of the people. For the rest of us, we will experience the eventual backslide of any CICO diet, which is the inabitilty to control cravings due to increased hunger hormones and a decreased/damaged BMR that can no longer burn the amount of calories to maintain weight it did before dieting. And BAM, we’re back to our starting weight and still packing on more pounds.
This is how calories restrictive diets end up for 95% of the people who do them.

(Mark Rhodes) #19

My thoughts are do you know what the weight is? Is this all scale weight or are you gaining flab & inches? My wife has stalled out for nearly 6 months at 175-180 yet she continues to buy smaller pants. If you could get a Dexascan at some point you would have a reliable measure of what type of weight you carry.

As to changes I like what @tdseest said in both his comments. I have suspected if you are metabolically flexible (which I am not as of yet) you should be able to switch back and forth between more fruits and vegetables and lower fat and back to higher fat lower fruits seasonally…I mean that is how we evolved dual systems, right? So I do not think the occasional paleo approach is wrong if it is not long term but say two months.

Finally if you are not using any fasting protocols that helped me and the missus through a couple of stalls.

(torie) #20

According to my fitbit scale, it’s still fat! :slight_smile:

Saying that, even though I’ve gained about 20 kilos since my lowest, there are only a few clothes that no longer fit. I think I have very condensed fat. And reasonable muscle hiding in there. Hah!! I mean, the shorts are more snug than before… but not uncomfortably so. It’s odd. I got down to a tight UK size 14 at my lowest but 20 kilos on and I’ve only gone up to a UK 16. (Still not happy about that, but hey…) Bodies are weird.

I’d LOVE to do a Dexascan, but no idea where I could find that here in Spain…!