Dazed & Confused Newbie - First Post

(Tessa) #1

Hi there Keto family! I say family because I’ve been on here for the past few months and have been researching different keto topics and issues and all of you have helped me so much! During my ups and downs I’ve come here and have been given guidance to KCKO. Thank you! I also love the 2 Keto Dudes podcasts!

A little about me before I get into why I’m finally posting on here. I’m 41, 5’8", female. My starting weight May 1, 2019 when I began my keto WOE was 200 lbs. My highest weight ever was 311 lbs in Aug 2016 when I had my Lap Band removed and converted to a Duodenal Switch gastric bypass. Besides having surgery on my ankle in Feb of this year and being non weight bearing for 8 weeks, I am pretty active daily because of my job. After surgery and not being able to walk I began putting on weight. I had also recently done one of those DNA health analysis and one thing that came back was I have an “increased likelihood” for type 2 diabetes. This and the weight creeping back on scared me. I’ve struggled with my weight since I was 10 y/o and know how quickly it can get out of control. So I started researching keto and now here I am.

Since starting keto about 3.5 months ago I’ve experienced the keto flu, had weight fluctuations, I log everything into MFP, had a DEXA scan done, and tried a little IF. My weight this week when I did my weekly weigh in was 184.2 (down 15.8 lbs). Not bad, however not the massive 20-30 pounds dropped that I see on here sometimes in the same time frame.

Why I’m here today is because I’m starting to feel like my head is spinning with things like - eat more, don’t eat too much fat, eat more fat, don’t worry about calories, try IF but don’t send your body into starvation mode, etc. Because I’ve had ups and downs with my weight, I come here for answers and have tried to apply answers to other peoples questions to myself. I know everyone is different so I thought I would finally introduce myself and just ask the professionals :slight_smile:

-Last week I had an extremely busy/active week at work which consisted of 10,000-12,000 steps a day, burning 2400-3000 cal a day (according to Fitbit), I was eating anywhere from 115g-130g fat, net carbs have never been above 20g per day, and macros are avg 75f/20p/5c. Because I was active this week I would’ve figured I would’ve dropped some weight. The complete opposite happened. I gained 5 pounds in 4 days! I knew it wasn’t fat weight, just water weight, but it took a week to get rid of most of it. I’m still up a pound. Any thoughts as to why this would happen? During the week I was having my BPC in the morning, then trying to fast till dinner. Sometimes my net calories for the day were under 900. I feel like I just wasn’t doing this right or maybe I don’t understand IF’ing. I’m worried though because my line of work I will most certainly have weeks like this again. My husband and I demo houses after they’ve flooded. So lots of physical, hard work typically in hot & humid environments.

-More info from my DEXA scan that I thought was interesting, my Resting Metabolic Rate is 1480 cal/day, I’m 35.7% (66.2lbs) body fat and VAT is 0.37.

-I’m also a little confused about being fat adapted. I felt like it took me forever to get adapted or what I think is adapted. I went from being really hungry every day to not as much. Then some days I’m hungry again all day. So on those hungry days I don’t know if I should eat, does this mean I’m not adapted that day?, in/out of ketosis?, is this normal? I read about people being able to fast for days/weeks at a time and I feel “keto broken” because there is no way I can do that. So being a life long dieter its hard to not get tripped up mentally when you feel so hungry sometimes and not sure if it is okay to eat, or feel guilty for eating something (always keto friendly foods though).

-Does it seem like my rate of weight loss is slow? Out of the 15 lbs I’ve lost, 7 of that came the first week. So only 8 pounds since then. I have taken measurements and have lost some inches though. Not enough to go down any sizes, but enough that my jeans aren’t as tight.

Thank you for taking the time to read my long post. I really appreciate any feed back good or bad. I’m very happy with this WOE and don’t feel discouraged, just confused and I want to make sure I’m doing this right so I can be the healthiest Me!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

First, there is a section in the Health forum for weight-loss surgery, and we could move this thread there, if you want. (It’s protected from Internet searches, if you think that would be valuable.) In any case, there is a lot of useful information in that section.

Second, a ketogenic diet depends on reducing carbohydrate to a level that keeps insulin low and fatty acids flowing in and out of adipose tissue. We recommend no more than 20 g/day of carbohydrate, because at that level, nearly everyone can get into ketosis and stay there. We also recommend eating a reasonable amount of protein, and eating fat to satiety. Fat is safe to eat on a low-carb diet, because its effect on insulin is so low as to be negligible, making it a safe source of calories.

We say to eat to satiety, because restricting calories causes the metabolic rate to drop and prevents excess fat from being mobilised for metabolism, because the body considers restricted calories to be a famine, so it hangs on to its reserves. Eating to satiety gives the body enough energy to avoid that famine reflex, while avoiding the potential of overeating. We strongly advise against eating past the point at which your hunger is satisfied. Another advantage of eating to satiety is that it eliminates the need to calculate caloric intake; the whole thing becomes automatic. The low insulin allows your hunger and satiation hormones, ghrelin and leptin, to work properly, making your appetite a reliable guide to how much to eat.

Since daily energy expenditure varies, you can expect your appetite to vary, as well. One paper I read suggests that while the daily appetite is not very closely tied to that day’s energy expenditure, intake and expenditure are very tightly regulated over about a week’s time. So you can expect days of greater and lesser appetite. I find that some days I am hardly hungry at all, while on other days, I need to eat quite a bit of food to satisfy my hunger. Since my weight remains stable and my clothes continue to fit, I don’t worry about it.

Just as the metabolism slows down when we cut calories, so too it speeds up if we happen to eat a bit past the point of satiety. The British food activist, Sam Feltham, performed an experiment in which he ate 5000 calories a day for 29 or 30 days. His weight remained essentially stable during that time, although he gained a few pounds of muscle and lost a few pounds of fat. Not everyone’s metabolism is as efficient as Feltham’s but it goes to show that we need not fear a few extra calories.

(Susan) #3

Welcome to the forum, Tessa =).

You are not eating enough and your body thinks it is starving. I have had this problem myself, so I am speaking from experience.

I finally signed up for a free app called cronometer.com

I actually don’t have a cell phone so I just use my desktop computer to log in to their site and type my information in daily. You type your age, current weight, height, gender, and it will figure out what you should have for weight loss. It is making it all a lot easier for me to figure out where I am lacking, so you might find it does the same for you. It is important that you eat enough calories, you are doing well by keeping your carbs at 20 grams or less, No sugar, (some people; like myself, find they cannot eat artificial sweeteners and lose weight either, I stopped all mine the beginning of June), get adequate protein, healthy fats, lots of water and enough Electrolytes and salts.

I think your major issue why you aren’t losing weight is you are not eating enough! So eat more, healthy Keto foods, within the macros of proteins/fats/carbs and good luck getting the scale to move again =).

You might want to check out this video as well, but I think your stall is mostly due to you not eating enough. I eat at 1pm lunch and then supper just before 5 so I have a 20 hour fasting period a day, and eat two meals during the 4 hours. This is called IF 20:4 and works well for me. Some people like to do a 16:8 or a 18:6 as well. It is important for your body to lose weight not to snack between the Fasting periods though, so your Insulin can stabilize and your body can lose fat.

#4

I go at it from kind of a of a “big picture” approach:

  • 20 net carbs or less, so that one is in ketosis
  • Get enough proteins, because your body needs them. Better too many than too few. The proteins need is based on lean body mass, not a percent of calories consumed.
  • Everything else is fat and calories. Calories do matter, but once fat adapted, hunger goes down for most. So, ideally, hunger would be the guide as to the number of calories and fats you need to eat. That’s because hunger is no longer being artificially driven by carbs and insulin.

If you do get hungry, feed the hunger primarily fats, some proteins, but as few additional carbs as possible.

Most of the early weight loss is water. As you go into ketosis, your glycogen stores will dwindle. As that happens, the water bound to the glycogen is also released. When that water flushes out, it can take electrolytes with it, which is why some people get the keto flu early on.

That’s why some people will gain weight back quickly when they go off keto. Glycogen stores increase and bind water to them, adding water weight. So keto is not meant for someone to drop a few pounds and then go back to the old way of eating.

But after that water weight is gone, weight loss is primarily based on caloric consumption, which can be slow. There are other factors, and calories are handled a bit different. But too many calories means weight gain, ketosis or not. Ketosis just makes caloric restriction easier, because the hunger is typically reduced as the body utilized stored body fat for some of its needs.

(mole person) #5

The messages can definitely get confusing. The first thing you want to do is stop worrying at all about macro percentages. They only actually make any sense for someone like me who is no longer trying to lose weight or for someone who is right at the start of the WOE and still starving. Here is a better way to approach it.

  1. No more than 20 net grams of carbohydrates. Preferably less. Even better make it total carbs.

  2. Eat the protein you need. In your case that’s going to be between 60 and 80 grams a day. 80 being the high range of 1.5 g/kg of lean mass that the two keto dudes recommend and which I believe is a very good starting point.

  3. Fill up your remaining calories FOR SATIETY only with fat. You don’t need to eat up your whole fat macro. The point of the diet is that as your satiety naturally starts to increase some of the fat fuel that your body needs will come off your body instead of your plate. This doesn’t mean eat no fat though. You want to be satisfied to keep your body’s metabolism humming along in a healthy way. But nothing bad happens if a few days a week when you are less hungry you eat way less fat and your calories come down lower.

I don’t know what your regular caloric intake is so I can’t really say that you are eating too little. But there is nothing wrong with the occasional 900 calorie day. You have 64 pounds of fat on you and there is nothing wrong with allowing your body to use it. It’s literally what it’s there for.

I have 800 calorie days quite frequently and have for over two years on keto and my metabolism is better than it has been in 15 years. BUT, I always eat more on days when I’m very hungry. Sometimes, albeit rarely, even 2000 calories. As Paul says, eat to your hunger and stop when you are satisfied. Also, his point about paying more attention to weekly numbers is an excellent one.

As @OgreZed has said, why this diet works is still ultimately about calories. The difference is that’s not how it feels because you don’t have to meticulously count and worry about them and you don’t have to ever be hungry since the diet also changes your hunger. A lot of people here fast which is eating zero calories sometimes for multiple days of the week. If they look at their average weekly calories they are just as low as someone who doesn’t fast but also only generally eats 900-1400 calories every day (this is pretty much how I eat). Not everyone fasts. I find it quite difficult myself, but still had no trouble using keto to get to my current weight of 104 lbs.

With respect to IF it’s both very healthy and can be a huge help in weight loss. If you’re interested in trying it start with 16/8. Most people can manage that. Remember, that BPC is full of fat though. If you do IF you want to have that coffee inside your feeding window. Personally, I think that for people who are fat adapted and still not losing much weight it’s best to get rid of the BPC. A common bit of advice given here is “try not to drink your calories (fat).”

As to the question of whether you’re fat adapted, I think you probably are. Fasting isn’t easy for many people and is more like a muscle that gets stronger as you use it. You will probably even find 16/8 a challenge at first. It doesn’t matter if you feel a bit of hunger when you are fasting. Nothing bad happens. But when you eat, don’t be scared to eat until you are fully satisfied.

(mole person) #6

The fact is that everyone is different. Your rate is slower than some but faster than others. Perhaps the best thing that you can do is give us some examples of what you eat and drink. Give as much detail as possible. There are many things that can slow down losses.

(Marianne) #7

The above has worked for me. I realize it’s an evolution for newbies (was for me, too), however, now I don’t want to track, test, weigh or think about food. I keep my carbs low - probably under 10 (because I’m not crazy on veggies), and I eat enough at meal times (and when I am hungry). Down to OMAD, but that is because I am fat adapted (I believe that took like 4 months, though). Dinner is a sizeable piece of fatty meat - if not, I supplement with bacon grease or butter (no hardship - love it!), and a loaded salad with full fat dressing, or a steamed veggie with butter or bacon grease. Love this WOE. Totally satisfying. Completely enjoy our meals but I don’t think about food - other than to decide what to take out of the freezer for dinner and what veggie we have in the fridge to have with it. My husband eats the same way.

You may not be losing as quickly as you like because you don’t have far to go. Feed your body; it will work. Good luck.

#8

Thank you, I needed to read this! :slight_smile:

(Jill F.) #9

Welcome @KetoGal01 to the family! Glad you are here. I agree keeping simple and eat to satiety is the key. Since you do such hard physical labor you may need to eat more or eat something with fat and protein in the am and make IF window shorter maybe 12 hours. Keep it up, sounds like you are on the right track!

(PSackmann) #10

Welcome! I can relate to the vagaries of appetite, when I’m really hungry I eat, starting with fat and protein. Our bodies seem to require varying amounts of food each day.

I found out several years ago that high heat and humidity can cause body tissues to hold onto water, thus a temporary gain. So, if you have a busy week doing a lot of demo in hot and humid environments, you can expect to gain a few temporarily. Personally, I don’t weigh very often during the summer for this reason.

(Joey) #11

@KetoGal01 As always, the experienced and knowledgeable folks here on the forum have weighed in with invaluable advice. And you’ve been at this keto-thing longer than I have, so I my input may be of limited value. But I’ll humbly offer one suggestion…

Although you clearly have the discipline and resolve to manage your macro intake/mix, I’m still wondering: Is it possible you actually might be getting more carbs than you believe?

In your situation, I’d want to make doubly sure I didn’t have some extraneous grams of carbs (or virtual carbs) working their way into my diet. I say “virtual” because some have reported that artificial sweeteners - those claiming “zero carbs” - can trigger carb-like insulin responses in some folks. (Even cocaine-addicted lab rats have been shown to prefer an artificial sweetener over getting more cocaine when facing a mutually exclusive choice.)

In short, I’d suggest you take one more really hard look at your line-up of foods to check for carb content. Make sure there are no extraneous carbs (real or virtual) that are creeping into your foodstream and creating an additional barrier to your long-term progress.

Best wishes!

(Tessa) #12

This is very helpful! I believe to be true also. Last week when I was working really hard I wasn’t very hungry. I was having my BPC in the morning then dinner in the evening which was normally a meat & veggie combo with added fat. Maybe around 500 - 700 cal for dinner.
This week though I’m much hungrier but not as active. So maybe last weeks activities are catching up with me? Thank you for taking the time to reply and share your information. I really appreciate it!

(Tessa) #13

Thank you for your reply! I watched this video and found it helpful!
I’m curious about your TMAD during the 4 hour eating period. How many cal/fat/carbs/protein are you getting during this time? If I need to eat more but only during a short window of time that is where I’m getting hung up. I really like the idea of IF and look forward to when it works for me. Thanks again for your time!

(Susan) #14

I try to eat more calories at the 1pm time, then have supper at around 4:45 so I can do 20 hours of not eating a day. I don’t snack between the lunch and supper but the two meals I am trying to get about 1500 or so calories from the two combined. I always keep the carbs under the 20 grams, but sometimes go over on the protein and/or fats.

(Tessa) #15

This is not me! I never want to go back to eating the way I did before. I’m not struggling with keto foods either. So far I’ve stayed away from fat bombs, and pre-packaged “keto” foods. There isn’t anything I crave or miss from my old way of eating. Because I know it was all crap and I feel so much better now!!
My goal is to be healthy, inside and out and stay that way. The weight loss portion of this is important to me for the health benefits and to overall feel better and stay active. I like healthy WAY more than I like bread! Lol!

(Tessa) #16

This helps! Do you only consume water or plain tea when it is not your eating window? Do you add in BPC or any other types of drinks when you do eat?

(Susan) #17

I am not sure what BPC is? I drink water, and tea or herbal tea, either plain or with Kirkland unsweetened vanilla flavoured almond milk (that has no carbs, no artificial sweeteners, and only has 25 calories per cup, and I just add a tad when I use it). I tried adding some coffee this week (gave it up again, it causes me massive headaches). The reason I tried again is I was trying to add some fats in the form of MCT vanilla flavoured powder, but I decided that I am not meant to drink Coffee!

I don’t like to drink any form or artificial sweetener and @Ilana_Rose mentioned she thought there was some in that, and she was right! (She is a very smart and helpful lady, so maybe me mentioning her here in your thread she will have some good advice for you too!). Myself, and several others here on the forum, have found that we need to refrain from using any artificial sweeteners if we want to lose weight.

Today for lunch I had 2 salmon fillets from last night’s supper, and some cauliflower I cooked in EVOO.

For supper I had 2 hamburg patties my hubby barbecued and 1 ounce mozzarrella cheese, I cut them all up and ate with a fork.

(Tessa) #18

I’ve been wondering about BPC and if I should cut that out. I do find if I have that around 6am, sometimes I’m not hungry again until 4-5pm. Other days I’m hungry all day. Here’s an example of a day I had recently where is was a little more hungry throughout the day:

6am-BPC with 1 tbsp butter, 1 tbsp coconut oil, 1 scoop MCT powder, 1-2 tbsp HWC, 1 scoop collagen peptides. 4 brown & serve sausage patties.
12pm-1/2 hamburger patty with Swiss cheese, 1/2 c sautéed mushrooms & 1 tbsp mayo
6pm- 1 hot dog (1 carb), 1 serving of fat head dough (made hot dog wraps), 1 tbsp mayo, 1/2 c cauliflower mash that had Parmesan cheese and butter in it. 1 slice Colby cheese.
Cal = 1514, Fitbit logged -845 cal for the day, so Net was 669 cal.
Fat 130g 77%, Protein 70g 19%, Carbs 16g 4%, Net Carbs 11.

Other days I may have eggs too for breakfast or a higher macro dinner which will put me closer to 1600-1800 cal for the day. Also, after my 1 BPC in the morning I have mostly water or hot tea in the evening.

(Tessa) #19

Thank you! I appreciate the words of encouragement!

#20

It stands for “bulletproof coffee,” which is a catch-all term for adding fats such as butter, coconut oil, etc. to coffee. “Bulletproof” is a trademarked name (Dave Asprey) but BPC is sort of like “kleenex” at this point (generically used term). BPC can be a real sticking point and point of contention. My two cents is that if someone is stalled or not losing weight, that should be the first thing they look at. Those calories can really add up.