Day One (23 October)

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #21

Are you a vegetarian? … Sorry, I may have missed that. Can you eat eggs? your gonna need more from somewhere.

(Rossi Luo) #22

Welcome, I’d like to say you made a right decision and it’s an important step to try this diet, and you are much braver than the people around me who have no courage to give a try even if their bodies and health are going quite bad and worse.

(icky) #23

I’m not a vegetarian, but don’t enjoy eating a lot of meat. I’ve tried Keto before (2018 I think) but stopped because I wasn’t enjoying the copious amounts of meat each day/ week.

I’ve decided that either I find a way to make it work with more vegetables, or it’s going to be useless for me cos I’ll just give up on it.

So I’m trying to find a balance of vegetables, dairy, eggs, olive oil and some meat.

I’m surprised by how much quieter/ smaller this forum is compared to 2018… There seemed to be so much activity then… What’s changed? Even the “The Great Big Public Keto Before And After Thread!” seems to have ground to a halt in 2020/2021…

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #24

That should work. Meat, especially beef, is the single most complete source of protein, having all the necessary amino acids in all the correct proportions. Eggs come very close. Vegetarian keto is much easier if one is willing to eat dairy, eggs, and the occasional fish. Since you are willing to eat some meat, that should make your diet even easier.

The problem with plant proteins is twofold: first, all the nitrogen in plants is considered “protein” whether it’s actually digestible or not. Second, the proportions of the essential amino acids are off from what we need, and if there isn’t enough of one, it limits the absorbability of all the rest. That’s why it’s traditional to combine beans and rice, for example, because their amino acid proportions combine well together.

#25

There are many ways to make keto work for you. Being a numbers guy, I want to know what the numbers show. This would include blood work before starting and then again three months later. Same with a DEXA scan. I also measured blood ketones a lot. If you want to keep it really simple, then decide not to eat anything that is white or could be white. The exception is egg whites. I found that the combination of these two helped me right from the beginning. Keeping a food journal can also help and lead to patterns that can help. Good luck.

#26

I don’t think one necessarily needs a lot of meat on keto. I did vegetarian (on/off) keto for years… It wasn’t as nice or easy as eating close to carnivore for me but each to their own. Keto has so many options, much or any meat isn’t necessary for everyone just very helpful, most of us find. I personally need high protein and very little non-animal carbs so meat may be more important for me but even I could make it work with little. Though what little means is individual.

You have so many protein and fat options on keto and even a little meat can be helpful, you probably can find some balance if you are determined and experiment! I wish you luck!

And fish and a huge variety of dairy (most of my several favs) if you ask me :smiley: If it’s just keto, plenty of other things as well, vegs, mushrooms, keto “flours”, many of us have no problem with sweeteners (though I pretty much ignore them at this point as I eat plenty sweet things anyway)… I eat white salt as well.

(icky) #27

Thank you so much for your tips and encouragement! :orange_heart:

I’ve gotten through day 4 and it’s getting easier with each day in…

I’ve managed to avoid the Keto “flu” by easing in gently, drinking a lot, getting electrolytes and eating protein/ fat/ low carb vegetables whenever I’m hungry.

I’m still getting the “waking up easier” thing in the mornings and feeling very grateful for that, because it’s really been an issue for ages that I’ve been so exhausted that I’ve not wanted to get up in the mornings and just keep sleeping.

I’m also feeling much, much more comfortable with my determination to individually tailor Keto to my needs this time (i.e. more vegetables). On my first try, I didn’t feel confident enough to do that and felt like I had to “follow (all) the rules” and it was just too much meat and too few vegetables for me and hence unsustainable. I figure it’s better I eat Keto-with-vegetables long term, rather than doing Keto-without-vegetables short term and failing at it because it’s just not “me”.

I expect I’ll be okay from here on in, but there may be bumps on the road so I’ll be glad for advice and help :relaxed:

And I’m very grateful for your support the first few days!! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:
Especially the first two days, I felt quite anxious and teary and not sure I was going to cope without carbs… It’s crazy how much of a crutch “comfort food” can be… :see_no_evil:

#28

I can relate. Though I didn’t even ever try to do the usual <20g net carbs (let alone total), no way I would stick to it for long and I don’t need that. I figured out what my body likes and needs and what I can handle. Of course, it involved risking I won’t get into ketosis but I did. And eventually I went lower on average, I personally needed to do that, not everyone does.
As far as I know, most people do keto with vegs and our meat intake is all over the place, each to their own. Keto doesn’t mean lots of meat with tiny to no veg, just low enough carbs to get into and stay in ketosis.

(KM) #29

And one of the things you can do is to identify some keto-friendly foods that are still special comfort foods or treats for you. Especially in the beginning of my journey, “all the smoked salmon I want” was a life saver! That’s harder to do without meat because most veggies still have enough carbs that you gotta count em, but I believe it’s still possible to be especially kind and gentle to yourself while on keto even without meat. All the fried cheese you can eat!

(Joey) #30

Interesting observation. Many “old-time” folks do come back to chime in once in a blue moon … if only to confirm their vast health improvements… and then wander off again.

Perhaps that’s because talking about something you’re not doing ( i.e., “not eating carbs”) is just not terribly noteworthy as a topic after a while. It’s a WOE, not a religion that requires weekly meet-ups.

On the other hand, given how much “keto” - in various meanings - has become a buzzword & marketing term, I’m surprised there aren’t more newbies (or just curious and confused folks) to make up the difference in numbers. :man_shrugging:

Anyhow, sounds like you’re off to a solid start. Best wishes and do keep us posted.

(KM) #31

That might actually be part of the problem. There are so many Keto Products out there that maybe people assume you can just buy Keto Bread and Keto Ice cream and improve your health - you no longer have to do the work, or understand the process, just buy some fancy packaging. Welcome to 2023. :woman_shrugging:

Of course there’s also the fact that A Plant Based Diet has become virtue signaling code for Good Person. Keto is trendy, but Plant Based is Innocence And Kindness In A Box.

(Joey) #32

How true. There’s little cocktail party cred to be had in announcing that you’re primarily a carnivore. I notice folks tend to move away from me.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #33

2018 - 2023 Keto is well practiced and better understood, better known. Kinda more accessible with easily found info.
This forum is a fantastic resource, there’s so much knowledge… I’m not great however :rofl:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #34

Hey, you can still have as much of that stuff as you want . . . tomorrow, just not today. Thinking that way can definitely help with any sense of deprivation.

I know that, myself, if I swore off carbs for ever, I’d be bingeing five minutes later, out of revenge. That’s just how my addictive mind works, lol! But postponing until tomorrow avoids that sense of deprivation and leaves me free to not have any carbs right now.

That’s what we’re here for. Our primary purpose is to be a source of accurate information, and then to be a supportive community to people embarking on this way of eating.

(icky) #35

Yeah, I think you’re right… I never have any problems with it when I’m fasting. I fast several times a year and have fasted for up to 6 weeks, which is long times of no carbs but it’s never felt scary (except the very first time fasting where I was super scared I’d not survive because well we all learn as kids that every living being has to eat to stay alive…) But fasting is always 100% voluntary and I know I can stop at any point if it gets too overwhelming for whatever reason.

But deciding to go Keto (for the 2nd time) feels a bit like I’m giving myself a life sentence of “no carbs, ever again”. I think that’s why the first two days I was feeling so emotional and like “I dunno if I can do this”. Cos “this” in my mind was “eat Keto for the rest of my life and never have carbs again”.

Probably not helpful to think/ speak of it quite that way… :rofl: :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

I’m going to have to find a happy medium, I guess…

I don’t think I can use the same approach as when fasting that it’s entirely voluntary and I can stop whenever I want to… That’s a bit too non-committal…

I like your idea of “tomorrow, just not today” but I’m not sure my brain finds that idea truly convincing either.

I need to come up with a bespoke motto that’s just right for the craziness and the horror scenarios that my brain comes up with at the thought of “no carbs again, never ever”…

That can be my homework for the weekend.

Apart from that, I’m doing well… Day 5 today… Went really well… Food was easy today… And I guess I’m in ketosis now (it’s pretty easy for me because thanks to fasting I’ve done it countless times over the past 15 years) as I had tons of energy today… I love that ketosis energy boost :orange_heart::orange_heart::orange_heart:

The last few months, I’ve been dreading my daily to-do list… Feeling exhausted and disheartened just thinking about everything I had to do that day… Pushing myself to get things done… Feeling exhausted and just wanting to give up and go to sleep after half the tasks were done… And today I was just zipping through the tasks, basically had everything done by noon, with tons of energy to spare. Brilliant.

Tho I did have one misadventure today due to that “excess” energy… Sigh… I’ll write about it later, cos it’s something I’m going to have to be careful about…

#36

But why? Keto allows more or less carbs to begin with and why do you commit for life if you aren’t ready…? I never did that just tried to see what happens if I eat half as much carbs as before… (Yeah, this ratio is higher for the average one…)
I have this “I am curious, let’s see what happens, maybe it will work” attitude :slight_smile: I can relate that committing for life or for the unforeseeable future can be scary. It isn’t always so, I gladly gave up things I didn’t deem important (even so, I had exceptional, rare days. those items couldn’t ever come back but a little here and there still happens). If I am not THAT ready, I try and see if it works. If I am clinging to an item, I never even try to give it up. Unless I am sure it would help and I am determined. Sometimes my body and even mind surprises me. More people should try things even if they seem impossible. Maybe they aren’t.

We all needs our own mind games, probably. Whatever calms down our wrongly scared parts… Sometimes it feels great to give something up (honestly giving things up worked for me many times. or giving them up as default but keeping the option of adding a tiny if I really, really want them. these are actually pretty close to each other but in the latter case I have a hunch I will want them eventually, sometimes. but it may never happen). Sometimes I cling to a tiny something (my diet is still very much keto with it) but as I don’t allow it without question, it slowly disappears or gets minimized.
It’s a process I can’t and don’t want to fully control. I do try things but I have so many parts and they should be taken into consideration… Some people can force a diet on themselves, I can’t, I need to do things more or less easily, slowly nudging my not so smart parts into the right direction. And I can enjoy the hell out of my keto or carnivore food, I eat tasty things! (And when I stray too much, my body complains and it discourages my wrong desires. I am a hedonist, after all and want to feel right. And I want to be good to my own body too. There are still hardships sometimes but it gets better as time passes.)

I do exactly that though… I just plan for a way longer time with keto… And I actually never could give it up for good. I just have off days… Less and less satisfying ones. Stupid carbs.

The “tomorrow, not today” thing makes no sense to my brain and anyway, if I want something now, I don’t even want to wait an hour but each to their own (but now, many years after I went keto the first time I actually can use a similar thing occasionally. I will eat the thing, of course as it was promised - unless I really don’t want it in the end and I can overpower the need to get it just because it was promised so it’s not really safe but I can still postpone off eating). Find your own way to trick your brain if you need that. Uncooperative thing :frowning: The main part may see what you should do but other parts are saboteurs… I could talk about compulsions, they are hard even though they attack my pride and that is strong. But not strong enough. I blame my overeating, no rules dietary past. And my compulsions are adorable compared to the really strong and damaging ones some people have.

You are right, it’s horror (to some of us, at least). I really enjoy I don’t need to worry about carbs in carnivore. I can get all I want, it’s fine :wink: But I have many days where I even have plants. In tiny amounts. They make things more joyful and sustainable. But they aren’t freebies. They are there to help if I need them, add food joy when I don’t have enough, help me eating when I don’t want my food enough but am hungry…
Can’t you have it in this easier way? It’s keto, not even zerocarb… You can have carbs. I ate carbs all the time on keto in the first years… Not much, sure as it’s keto and it limits it but I had my old beloved low-carb items in moderation. And they made a huge difference. I personally needed my high-carb items to balance out the new hardships of an even lower carb intake… The most flavorful, most enjoyable little things. It’s how my satisfaction and mind worked so I did that.

But I wrote too much while I can’t tell you what YOU should do as we are all individuals. Maybe you got some ideas while reading it, who knows? I hope so.

Congrats! If I had energy from keto (mine is low-ish basically all the time on every diet), I would be super determined and probably more easily could avoid carbs even in situations where I don’t have my nice variety at home…
You have energy, it’s great, appreciate it! Well see you do :wink:

(Geoffrey) #37

So are you doing keto or carnivore?
If you’re on keto then you will still have carbs. But if you’re carnivore like I am then yes, no carbs ever again. At least that’s how I look at it.
It seems to me the carbs you fear losing are not the whole carbs from natural foods but rather the highly processed foods that have no nutrition and are not really food.
Sounds like you’ve got a life affirming decision to make. Do you want to feed your body for health and well being or do you just want to feed your desires and pleasures have a sick body that supports the pharmaceutical companies?
Good luck and good health.

#38

I totally eat 40g sugar on carnivore too (it was 20g without milk)… Sometimes (but regularly). Usually not. But I almost never was below 3g :slight_smile: I do it meatier now, 3-10 is normal I guess except of course when I eat a lot of liver… :wink:

Zero PLANT (and fungi) carbs, that’s more like it (for pure carnivore but even my spices and condiments add almost none) and it is important for my body, apparently. Animal sugars feel nice, those aren’t a problem. Nice if it’s the case and one isn’t even sensitive to them… It would be a bleak world for me without eggs and dairy.

If I hear “healthy carbs”, I always think of eggs, dairy and liver… But if those are my healthy carbs…

(Geoffrey) #39

@Shinita yes, I understand what you are saying and your right, even on carnivore we eat carbs but animal carbs are not the same as complex carbs that spike your insulin such as that from sugar and grains. They affect our hormonal response differently. At least that’s my understanding of it.

#40

I agree, it was always my experience.
Plant sugar and starch isn’t the same either. I can tolerate WAY more starch than simpler sugars. Neither are good for me but I often feel even a little bit of non-animal sugar. Way more lactose than that? Just fine, feels the same as almost no carbs. It’s a bit strange, that is sugar too, not the same but somewhat similar… Not to my body, apparently.