Day 6 and I miss veggies

(Mary Ettner) #1

So, when I started I thought I’d be eating meat and veggies and just cutting the bread and sugar. I never knew veggies were mostly carbs and I’d be cutting those too. I’m on day 6 and thinking about quiting to do something that allows me to eat veggies. Or am I just doing it wrong? Help!

(TJ Borden) #2

I guess it depends on which veggies you are missing/referring to. I’ve found myself eating more veggies than ever before in my life since starting Keto, and enjoying them. I just try to avoid starchy veggies (anything that grows below ground), although I still use onions and carrots sparingly, especially in soup.

What I eat all the time is: spinach, cabbage, collard greens, kale, chard, broccoli, and BRUSSELS SPROUTS - all of which are awesome cooked/fried in butter with some salt and pepper.

They still have carbs, but I figure them as incidental and I don’t really worry about “counting”. They also have fiber and other nutrients, plus they’re such awesome delivery vehicles for delicious fat.

(Mary Ettner) #3

I’ve been using MyFitnessPal to track and just by eating a small amount of spinach and bell pepper I’m already at my max for carbs. Today I had some zucchini and went over. I also have had tomatoes and gone over. It seems like the only way to stay to 20g carbs is to cut veggies. But that doesn’t work for me. Am I counting wrong? Is MyFitnessPal not the best way to do it? Are carbs from veggies okay?

(Athena) #4

Are you counting total carbs or net carbs?

(Mary Ettner) #5

Total

(TJ Borden) #6

Generally you only need/want to count NET carbs, which would be the total carbs you’re looking at, minus the fiber.

#7

It would suite you better I think to count net carbs. Net carbs take into consideration the fiber content of a food. Green veggies are particularly high in fiber so the net carb allows for generous use. The fiber promotes the ketogenic process. It promotes the lowering of blood sugar and insulin and the metabolism of fat.

(TJ Borden) #8

Okay, you said it WAY better :smile:

#9

I have been reading The Ketogenic Bible by Dr. Jacob Wilson and Ryan Lowery, PhD and just finished a section about the net v total carb thing. So it was on my mind.

(Joan) #10

OK, I’m having the same problem with veggies. I need to keep my protein down a bit, I found that more protein is raising my blood sugar and making me more hungry. But I have to eat something and having a salad with meals puts me over on carbs. I use a balsamic/oil dressing so that isn’t adding any carbs to meal. One site I was on said don’t even count the veggies because they were so important for your body, so I’m wondering if that’s what I should do. On the other hand I do have a tendency to over do food that is considered “free”. If that makes sense to anyone. Any suggestions?

#11

You might want to check your balsalmic. Mine has sugar in it and a carb count so I stick with blue cheese dressing, ranch or olive oil/ACV.

(Brian) #12

Veggies are not all created equal. Find a webpage that lists veggies and their relative carb counts. Stick mostly with the ones on the low side of that list. It’s not that complicated.

Instead of stressing so much over the non-starchy veggies, start looking at INCREASING your fat intake. Don’t take the “high fat” part of LCHF out of it. Many of us have a tendency to do that, especially with the “fat is evil” mantra we’ve had drilled into us for the past few decades. Fat is very filling / satisfying. And getting enough of it can help a person lose weight just as not getting enough of it can cause a stall. (I know, it sounds very conuterintuitive. But many of us have been there, done that.)

Most fiber is not digestible so your counting that the same as the starch in a potato is not really being honest with yourself. That’s one reason people say to count NET carbs.

Also, 20g of carbs is not the only number out there. That’s kinda the number that most everyone agrees a person can get into and stay in ketosis with. Some will struggle even at 20g while others, particularly athletic types, can approach 70g or 80g and not get bounced out of ketosis. People are individuals. Yes, we’re similar, but no two are exactly alike.

You can eat vegetables and be in ketosis. I do. Lots of people do. You can eat protein and stay be in ketosis. You don’t need a 5 pound T-bone at every meal but you need to get your protein. The way it was described to me is that I need a piece of quality protein about the size of the palm of my hand at every meal. I’m sure there are some variations but that has worked out pretty well for me. Sometimes I’m a little under, sometimes I’m a little over. It’s not something I stress about. But I HAVE TO get my fat in there or I stall every time.

Low carb / non-starchy veggies can be a good vehicle for butter!! I love broccoli drenched in butter. I love spinach and mushrooms sauteed in lots of butter. And there are other healthy fats if you don’t like butter. I find that when I get the fats in there, I don’t tend to want to overeat the veggies.

KCKO… keep calm and keto on.

#13

Yep, I still eat lots of vegetables. Just add fat. I drizzle acv and oil over my greens, Friday I fried cauliflower in bacon grease. Last night I made zucchini noodles and sauteed them in butter.

#14

If you’re eating non starchy veggies, you’re probably not overdoing it. That would be a huge amount. These are are each about 25g total carbs:
6 cups of broccoli
half a head of cabbage
40 spears of asparagus
2 bags of fresh spinach
35 florets of cauliflower

Folks like Dr Perlmutter (brain health), Dr Berg (metabolic health), Dr Wahls (autoimmune health) say veggies should take up half the space on our plate, or eat an 8 oz salad 2x day. They believe the nutrients in veggies are essential for healthy gut microbiome and fixing fatty liver.

Ultimately, all that matters is what works for your body. So if you want to dial it in specifically, n=1 testing is the only way. Measure your BG then eat a meal (at least 300 cal) consisting of only veggies and fat (like butter). Measure your BG again in an hour. Note the change. On a separate occasion, repeat the experiment with an isocaloric meal consisting of only protein and fat. If want to be completely thorough, run a third test using only fat.

I find it very hard to consume a large enough quantity of vegetables in a meal to raise my BG relative to the amount of protein I’m eating in that meal. So the veggies are essentially getting a free ride.

(Trish) #15

My favourite way to do veg now is I toss them in olive oil and fresh garlic and heavily sprinkle seasoning then put then in the oven for 20 minutes. I typically do a bunch of different types together like asparagus, Brussels sprouts, green beans, broccoli, cauliflower, onion, peppers, even some carrots. I also take California mix, so broccoli, cauliflower, and carrots, do the same but put some shredded cheese on top for the last few minutes in he oven. So yummy.

(Joan) #16

wow! This sounds like an experiment I can wrap my head around! I did take my BG after a salad and 2 hard boiled eggs and it was lower than it was when I woke up that morning. But I haven’t taken it after protein meals. Thanks I’m going to give this a try!

(TJ Borden) #17

Ditto to what @Lorrie said, basalmic is actually pretty high in sugar. I still use it sparingly, especially on caprese salads.

As far as the veggies. I think you just hit on the key difference between Keto and LCHF. LCHF would say leafy greens are “free” and fill up as much as you want. With Keto, go ahead and have the salad, but if you’re still hungry after, eat more fat.

#18

A keto diet is eating in such a way that you are in ketosis. How much fat, carbs, or protein varies by individual.

(Lynne Hurley Perry) #19

I figure if I go over on the veggie side of things it is better than what I was doing before which would have been cakes and cookies.

(TJ Borden) #20

Agreed, and although it seems like the LCHF movement is shifting more towards Keto, take the diet doctor for instance. Two years ago there was just barely a passing reference to Keto, and it was referred to as super strict LCHF, and now Keto is the main theme.

My point was simply that LCHF at its basic, isn’t geared at achieving Ketosis, and if you are in ketosis and over do it on veggies, you can still be well within LCHF guidelines, but it would knock many of us out of ketosis, especially those of us that are super insulin resistant.