Dairy on Carnivore?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #43

My uncle used to say that the way to keep a cow from acting up when you milked her was to make sure your hands were warm, lol!

#44

and alot of feed in the grain trough while doing the deed!!!
what does everything want on this entire planet…food now HA and I fit this category also LOL

#45

My coconut milk is very fatty too. So it’s just like cow milk if we only look at this definition… Sugary, fatty water with some flavor. Okay, a little protein too. Of course the nutrients are different - and I don’t care about them as I get that from my proper food.

The grain milks pretty much lack fat though. A milk without fat is just hopelessly inferior for me :slight_smile: I can handle 8% cream in coffee, it’s not the fat is what I want but still, a little is warmly welcomed.
But people are different and I can handle dairy while others can’t and they still need something in their coffee. I can drink black coffee but I don’t like it.

I can imagine people hating the UHT flavor of cream, I am not fond of that either but I can handle it if it’s cream (UHT milk is awful, never would touch it).
While coconut milk is quite tasty in its coconutty way.

#46

Plant milk is a thing. IMO. (But I kinda understand if people disagree.) There is no such thing as plant meat or plant egg or plant cheese, of course but milk doesn’t have that. It is used for plant things like the white liquid coming out of several species, it’s called milk I think, it definitely does in Hungarian but I think it’s the same in English? Of course, the white drink happens differently but due to milk already being a plant thing, it doesn’t bother me at all. Vegan cheese, that does. It’s an oxymoron, there is NO such thing. Though I get it, they need to call it something. But still, it isn’t that.
Hungarian vegans got creative and sometimes use it with horrible spelling (for both milk and cheese, we have a certain sound in it and that has 2 different letters for it, they sound the same but mixing them makes people like me upset) and that breaks my Hungarian language loving heart… It’s hard to satisfy me I am aware.

But of course, we have plenty of terms where the whole thing has little to do with the last word… So maybe I shouldn’t be like this but I am. But this is just some tiny thing. I only HATE when vegan stuff is deceptive for the not very careful experienced customer. That’s nasty.

And I use certain terms in a wide sense myself but they are a food item which doesn’t actually mean them done in a very specific way… ALL cheeses are animal and all meatballs are from meat but it’s not so clear for some other items.

And I personally can’t do much with things called “fake”. Most of them aren’t fake to me at all as the original isn’t about the “real” thing. I don’t know “fake sugars”. They are very real sweeteners, some even exist in nature… I understand people come from a sugary diet and they try to replace it but my attitude is still very different. I am very well aware that my (not really used anymore but I had my sweet past) sweeteners are nothing like sugar, even the taste is very off and I like that. They are merely things to sweeten things, I couldn’t care less if sugar was there first, it doesn’t make the better option any less real.

I talked about these things before. I never understood what’s wrong with substitutes either as long as it worked for the one in question. In my case, they almost never emulated anything (carbs can’t be emulated if you ask me, the result always will be very different, maybe with very tiny exceptions), they were there by their own, not at all fake right.

(Vic) #47

No, its carnivore to me.

But its not the main food, its a side. Its non satiating, over eating is a risk.

(B Creighton) #48

Dairy is not considered carnivore, but I had the success I wanted without doing carnivore. However, since you mentioned your goal is to address inflammation, I thought I would chime in. Doing Keto I found out some things that changed my routines. I dropped my old std yogurt for goat yogurt when I found that goat yogurt has about double the MCTs as whole milk cow yogurt. I have found the extra MCTs to be quite helpful in maintaining metabolic flexibility and losing fat. Further, I found out that most all American dairy has considerable A1 casein in it due to a genetic mutation introduced through Holsteins. A1 casein is now suspected as a trouble maker as it becomes a chemical related to morphine in the body - beta-casomorphin7. I have become suspicious of it as a causal link to prostate cancer. Anyway, the word cheese comes from the French word for casein. So, unless you know your cheese is coming from pure bred Guernsey or Jersey cows, you might try discontinuing it. All other cheeses do not have this issue, such as goat cheese and sheep cheese, because they will only have A2 casein. Creme and butter are going to have very little casein. I use a lot of butter in cooking, etc. I love to dip my shrimp in garlic butter.

Anyway, that is some of what I learned about dairy. It is possible some of your inflammation is coming from cheese, so you might try dropping it for a month to see if that helps. Otherwise, I found goat yogurt to be highly ketogenic, and have no issues doing keto with it. I still use some standard dairy cheese to make omelets like you. I just don’t eat it on a daily basis unless doing keto.

#49

Hi thanks for your reply. It is interesting what you write about goat yogurt and cheese as I once bought that and it seemed to be much better inflammation-wise, but I stopped buying it due to it being expensive. Glad you have no issues with cream and butter. My new experiment is to cut down on the cheese, but continue for now with cream and butter. If inflammation persists I’ll give up butter and if it still doesn’t get any better the cream, but I hope it won’t come to that, as it would ruin my morning coffee. I will try also to purchase some goat cheese again and see if that helps. As to the diet itself, I’m still keto. I think I will keep up with that for at least 6 months to a year now and see what happens, as I only started this WOE 12 Oct.

(Megan) #50

If you google “carnivore diet food list” you will see most sites include dairy but say to only eat in moderation if you have no issue with it. I eat a small amount of dairy and consider myself carnivore. I’ve read quite a few carnivores say their dairy consumption either decreased over time quite naturally/organically (which is what is happening for me) or they decided at some point to remove it completely. Binging on it and weight loss stalls are often cited reasons for removing it completely.

Some folks need to use carnivore as an elimination diet and/or to address specific health issues, in which case dairy is excluded right from the start.

#51

And there are all the people sensitive to it as well. Most people trying carnivore aren’t even healthy folks being okay with basically anything edible and not being able to handle lactose isn’t unusual in adult human population anyway…
But if someone is fine with it, why not? It’s animal so carnivore. But as Fangs always says and I agree with her, it’s not our main food, far from it… Okay in moderation if it helps us instead of causing harm but we shouldn’t depend on it much.
I automatically eat little dairy but it was somewhat more in the beginning when I couldn’t eat much meat (and was a bit obsessed with sour cream and cream… well they are wonderful…), understandably. It feels right to eat little dairy and more meat and eggs.

(Megan) #52

Yes, all the people sensitive to it is included in the “only eat in moderation if you have no issue with it.”

(B Creighton) #53

I presently get my goat yogurt at Trader Joes, and it is not too bad at $5.69/qt. Some of the larger chains have it as well at a similarly reasonable price, like the larger Publixes in the south. The goat yogurt at Wal-mart has an additive, but is a last ditch option. I too found it too expensive at the health food stores. I dress mine up with berries, xylitol and erithrytol/monk fruit, and look forward to it. I think I do have less digestive issues with it than std yogurt, but still eat a grapefruit afterwards to aid digestion, although I have never noticed any discomfort after breakfast with it. Keto in general is anti-inflammatory so should benefit you.

#54

Of course you could, you just chose not too. Which is 100% fine, but call it what it is. If you want to eat nearly all meat, and still do the dairy, than do that. There is zero reason to force yourself into a cookie cutter and do a specific thing, do YOUR thing!

#56

Did I say I never saw goat yogurt yet? And I am a tad envious. I am sure I wouldn’t eat it regularly but I am curious. And love options.
But we don’t even have over 30% cream here. Well once I saw 35%. Once. I don’t NEED a fattier one but why other countries have it and we don’t despite our country eat high-fat and is agricultural and stuff? :smiley: At least we have mascarpone but that’s not the same.

No, we often actually can’t when we say so. It’s THEORETICALLY possible but if we actively TRY to do it, we fail. At least me. I have no dairy times, they last for 2 days at most. Saying “you need more willpower” or whatever doesn’t help a thing. Knowing I die if I eat it would but I don’t even get unwell from it… The OP is different but still, dairy may be extremely charming and there is the hope that a little will be fine. Cutting down cheese if needed, fine, not drinking creamy coffees every again? Nope. (I personally could do that, I suppose, I never will be able to want it though so I won’t do it.)

I didn’t try hard to quit dairy but I did try other things and I often failed repeatedly. There are limits. Like I can’t stick to keto for long. It’s totally impossible without some very serious force. And potentially having problems with even little dairy vs creamy coffee being highlight of the day (for the OP. my highlight is my meat and eggs, usually), that’s just not serious enough to trigger a serious determination to enable us to pull off the sacrifice. (It would totally go against my core personality. I don’t do sacrifices unless it’s a very serious health or other reason. Not just ‘maybe it’s not so great’. I would go for less dairy too, not zero right away.)

I experienced a few times that people don’t understand others with a very different attitude towards food items or eating in general. The OP and me must have similarities so I can relate to the problem even without real issues with dairy. (I mean, overeating is an issue but amounts actually help there…)

#57

It’s not the same at all but maybe better than nothing for some…? (With some other sweetener if they feel stevia awful like me. I mean, I feel stevia awful not that I am awful… :upside_down_face:)
If I couldn’t tolerate milk, I just wouldn’t drink milk, it’s pretty easy, I did it for years. I did lactose-free years, even, I can’t imagine how… Of course I ate almost everything back then, I couldn’t do it nearly as easily near carnivore…

#58

it is carnivore. key being if one wants ‘strict all in meat’ carnivore then dairy is eliminated for sure. But dairy truly is carnivore, ain’t no plants in it but of course it falls under ‘processed for us’ carnivore and many do want to dump it from that issue plus it is ‘dairy’ and highly inflammatory to many.

but yea it is carnivore for sure. might not have eyeballs and never had a breath of air but it all comes from something with eyeballs and did breath air so yea, all carnivore for sure. Again, great for many of us, nope and it has to be a personal determination if you do well on any form of dairy. Plus dairy in its own right ‘doesn’t give us much’ in the vitamins/nutrients and minerals etc. at all so a side dish as mentioned above and great for making some sauces etc if one does ok on that too.