Dairy on Carnivore?

#1

I’ve gradually been cutting down on my nuts, berries, vegetables, and am beginning to think I might even find myself easing into carnivore, except … I eat a whole heck of a lot of dairy. It is the one thing I can’t cut down, so today’s menu is:

Breakfast: 10 almonds. A plate with blocks of cheese. Coffee with cream.

Lunch: 3-egg cheesy omelette which I make richer with cream.

Snack: 6 rashers of bacon.

Coffee with cream.

Dinner: Buttery chicken thighs.

Dessert: 100g of natural yogurt.

Snack: More cheese blocks.

Now my question is, do you limit your dairy intake on a carnivore diet? As I just can’t ever see myself giving it up entirely and only eating meat.

Just a little info about me. I am 5.2, 117 pounds so not dieting for weight loss. My health goal is to improve my lipoedema, reduce swelling and inflammation. I must be doing something right because the lipoedema pain is greatly reduced.

(Allie) #2

What makes you say that?

It’s really personal preference on carnivore as far as I know, @Fangs will be able to assist :slight_smile:

#3

you picked that ‘weirdo carnifvore’ food group. Dreaded or beloved ‘dairy’

it is not ‘strict carnivore’ and it is advised to drop it when starting carnivore to be all animal as in meat/seafood fish and fowl. that dairy falls into a niche category but it is ‘man made’ ya know cause no one can ‘hunt dairy’ out in the wild…so it is not considered good on strict and key being dairy holds that big ‘inflammatory and allergy type’ process wtih it in alot of our bodies.

some do well on it. others can’t have it and find if they feel they can eat some, when they dump it they improve 100 fold so.

I suggest this if you wanna ‘slowly walk into carnivore’ is dump most of your dairy dependence.

you say you wanna ‘walk in slow’ so to do that is dump alot of dairy out of your day and replace fresh meat/seafood fish or fowl and come this way as it suits you.

unless one is totally off dairy for a while does one truly know what it does to us personally. very individual but since carnivore is an ‘elimination menu’ to find us best it means dumping dairy kinda to show us more real truths.

TO SLOW walk carni way I would do this kinda:

Breakfast: 10 almonds. A plate with blocks of cheese. Coffee with cream. no almonds, no cheese, bacon and eggs for food with coffee with cream

Lunch: 3-egg cheesy omelette which I make richer with cream.
**your buttery chicken thighs for lunch or maybe a cheeseburger with some cheese **

Snack: 6 rashers of bacon. keep this if you want it, wanna eat it and see if you need it but darn bacon anytime is fine on carnivore

Coffee with cream. sure, drink if you want but I would maybe now put some water into my life…just pure old water ya know but many carni drink their coffee but also don’t drink too much as they feel they don’t need it but you are ‘slowly changing’ and ‘walking this way’ on tip toe

Dinner: Buttery chicken thighs. eat more or have a small steak, a small pork chop, or ANY meat, a plate of shrimp or scallops or 1/2 roasted chicken on a plate…just see what you desire at dinner after eating the changes from above.

Dessert: 100g of natural yogurt. since you are slowly walking carni I would choose anything but dairy based. Here your almonds do well. Here some crunchy veg might suit you but ya know, I don’t know truly what ‘keto plan’ foods are out there LOL cause I never did Keto desserts but I would find some fresh berries etc but I would focus not on dairy here as my intake

Snack: More cheese blocks. if you can handle the food intake again I would go some meat. like some slices salami. maybe more bacon. maybe just some other intake other than dairy that is a keto fit for you and again, after eating those abve changes do you want more snacks?

See our appetites change if your first meal is the meat/protein. Like bacon and eggs. Hound them down, all ya desire…then play the food intake game based more on your hunger after that meal and slowly limit up that diary a bit and focus more on that meat protein and good meat fats and add in your non-dairy more Keto friendly foods.

best of luck to ya…all you can do is a few changes and see how ya roll and what way suits you best :slight_smile: Let us know how you do changing it up a bit!!

#4

Hi, thanks, this was really helpful :slight_smile: Perhaps I’ve been going at it the wrong way as I found when I cut down on nuts, berries and veggies, I also increased my dairy intake. So I will follow your advice and start cutting down, and for desserts and snacks, have some nuts or berries instead. And even for now, add a few veggies to my dinner to bulk it up a bit as well as up the protein. I have really been craving a good porkchop, will have to buy some. Beef and bacon have been my meat staples, but can get a bit dull. I eat salmon, but should really start eating more varied seafoods. I have a feeling the dairy, though I seem to be addicted to it, isn’t doing me any good. Because whenever I cut it out my roseaca, both the facial and ocular improves to the point of being barely visible. When I eat a lot of cheese I start looking like strawberry, so that should tell me something right there. Well, I managed to kick my sugar and high carb habit to the curb, so I should be able to limit dairy as well. Thanks again :slight_smile:

(Allie) #5

I have had to cut dairy completely again and feel loads better for it. Have done it on and off, keep trying to add it back in but each time it slaps me so I banish it again.

#6

Yes, I do but it’s me. Dairy isn’t satiating to me and I still have overeating problems (but being fair I couldn’t do longer term carni yet) so I limit my dairy consumption. I don’t even want it so much, honestly. A tiny bit, sure, I need it but not much more.
But it matters WHICH kind of dairy… Butter (I keep forgetting it’s dairy, it’s just fat to me, it acts like fat as I am not sensitive to the teeny-tiny sugar and protein)? Cream? Quark? Cheese?
I am wary with butter and cream as they are in the added fat cathegory so no satiating effect and easy overeating. I learned to use them in tiny amounts (butter is easy as it’s very expensive and I love my lard. Not like I should eat that galore, of course).
Quark is no problem, it’s low-fat (too much so I add sour cream, still a good protein source and dessert) and it satiates me fine I suppose - hard to tell as I eat very little of it, it’s just a snack in the end of my meal.
Cheese doesn’t satiate me well but it’s a wonderful item sometimes. I use it in small amounts, it helps me eat more eggs when I don’t want meat anymore but need more food. (Eggs are satiating but meat is the best except fowls.) I’ve read many people have problems with cheese, I mean they too easily go overboard with it.

Yogurt is too carby but I am not into it anyway. If I eat any, that’s Greek yogurt as it’s 10% fat, it’s a light sour cream that isn’t as foul as 12% sour cream, I don’t buy low-carb versions of anything, ew. And while sour cream isn’t always as creamy as I like, Greek yogurt is always liquid enough to mix into things… I often use sour cream for other purposes, not to add fat so yogurt is a good replacement then. I buy one cup every few months, only if it jumps at me, not one of my important dairy items.

Many people don’t eat dairy as it causes various problems. I don’t have that and I need variety so I use them to spice my carni and non-carni days alike but I trained myself out of using much of any. Only sour cream and cream was like that, I never ate much cheese. But it’s WAY better to avoid cheese normally for me as the usual boring young Gouda my SO always buys becomes something highly enjoyable when I eat it occasionally… And it’s good to have some items I use rarely for times when I am bored of almost any food…

I didn’t want to even try meat alone (I go where my desires or the willingness of my body and mind brings me… I eat much more meat than ever already) but I can imagine no dairy as long as I don’t get super bored of my remaining limited options, meat and egg.
And you can pry my eggs from my cold dead hands :slight_smile: I may eat less of them now that I have no problem with much meat but they are still important!

By the way, I was very, very, very, very sure I never will be able to give up my precious vegetables. I did keto at 40g net carbs because of them (and because I didn’t eat meat. but vegs brought 25g net carbs and I felt it’s almost unbearably low, hence me going off keto all the time after fat adaptation). I thought I will be vegan before I stop eating vegs (and see my stance towards eggs).

I don’t know what happened but I don’t want vegs anymore. Maybe a few kinds here and there but a month without any doesn’t sound bad (not like I ever did it but I might this winter). Now when I eat vegs, it’s either meh and I stop immediately or nice (I still eat very little) but I don’t need it.
(I still adore fruits. I stopped needing them though and that helps a lot. You don’t need to eat things just because you love them. As long as I love my carni food, I can resist others - with some exceptional situations though.)

#7

I give me some more time and try to do some no dairy carni again… I think I lasted a few days or less in the past…? But I couldn’t eat so much meat back then.

Maybe that is one of the keys… How much emphasis we can put on meat? If someone is like me years ago (not even in the very beginning) that I tried to eat 1 pound of meat every day and I did it for a week and had enough of it (I wonder it that triggered my vegetarian week afterwards… I never should force and overdo things, it backfires)…
Now I can’t eat only 1 pound of meat, I need much more.
And as I ate more and more meat, my eggs and dairy consumption became less and less important. As I liked my meat more, I stopped needing dairy to spice up things so much.

@never2late, do you have very meaty days? What if you try to eat, like, a pound of meat before you choose cheese? Oh I would make so many interesting experiments :smiley:

#8

Well if you want to cut down your dairy consumption and not caring about carnivore…
Or you think cutting out nuts and berries will be easier, now you should focus on less dairy…? You know how you works but focus on more meat too if carnivore is your end goal!

But you so not have a proper carni mindset about desserts :smiley: Of course, I just think about carni desserts… I am not even a carnivore so I eat dairy for dessert but proper carnivores totally eat meat as “dessert” :smiley: And why not? Fish is different from out main meat… Chicken is side dish for many and some meat item may be a dessert.

What. Vegs for protein? But they have almost none… Or you have some tiny protein need. Whatever, I wanted to talk about the bulking up. Are you someone who needs a bigger volume for your meal? I don’t so I go for satiation and vegs work against that but if you need volume, maybe some people will have some ideas… I have soups, egg pudding is not so calorie dense as most of my food… But eggs in general are like that too…

Oh if I had such a change I would forget about dairy…! You do the right thing, put the focus on other items!

#9

yea you can walk down that dairy or you can go all in carnivore but if you walk that slower walk that is fine. I came into it from low carb regular to extreme low carb and then into carnivore so I walked it down also but with extreme lc I also knew I was one who ‘did ok on ‘some’ dairy’ by then since I put in the time ya know in that journey…but if you see differences off dairy then yea, I would replace with other keto options or go get a big ol’ pack of those delish pork chops ya want :slight_smile: sesafood is a wonderful add to any day for those who love seafood!!

Just make those little changes ya know. Think other than dairy as that reliable extra, cause it is so convenient and so ready available to ‘just eat’ but you got tons of other options ya know.

I would 'eat big meat protein and big meat type fats like bacon and good chops and more as my ‘more first meals’ in that it ‘easily later controls’ your other meals cause you are more satiated and ‘stuff’ed’ and fed well that the snacking then seems to not be as much of a concern as we change. Doesn’t happen overnight, well for some it can LOL but if you change it up like ya said with emphasis on bigger first meals that hold ya well, then you find your food intake options less worrisome in a way cause the body is more well fed and it kinda says, ok, I am in good form here :slight_smile:

good luck on changes. just handle them slow and figure out how it all suits you best and you working on you is always a good thing!!

#10

yea I feel ya on that. I am a lucky one who can do some dairy easily but more carnivore I am thru the years the more I just naturally dump cheese. Don’t need it unless I want it on a cheeseburger ya know…but I do feel it is tough for those who truly can’t tolerate it cause it really is a ‘big plus’ on my eating plan in that I know I can handle it and I know I feel well on it and I know it gives me great taste I enjoy. Those who can’t, yikes but in the end it is all about us as individuals and how we wanna roll on our future on what to eat that helps us or nails us :slight_smile: good post!!

but like you I ‘tried many’ times to add back a few things and had to also ‘banish’ like ya said. hard concept to accept actually but darn ya know…weee…but eventually we get it and accept it cause we feel icky on it so…banish is a good word for it!! We all got stuff we have to ‘banish’ for sure.

(Bob M) #11

It’s definitely individual, as I have zero issues with dairy. Taken to drinking raw milk from Jersey cows (A2 protein).

On the other hand, I still don’t eat that much of it. I have been having yogurt though.

But I’m also not carnivore.

(Robin) #12

I have held on to my precious dairy (heavy whipping cream, in fact) while otherwise being carnivore. I don’t care about fitting into a label exactly. If it starts to give me problems, I’ll dump it… like so many other things I gave up.
But I basically eat meat, eggs, and dairy. Oh, and coffee. That’s 2 strikes against me according to some… whom I respect greatly.
And some folks claim the label of ketovore. Again, labels aren’t important to me. The results are.

I don’t try to fit into a specific label. I learn what foods work and what don’t. This isn’t a contest, it’s a way of life. If you love dairy and it is working for you… rock on.

(Alec) #13

Snap! I consider myself a carnivore and I do eat dairy: cream, cream cheese and cheese. Relatively small quantities.

#14

one is carnivore if it is animal simple as that.

there is ‘relaxed carnivore’ in that one can eat some dairy from an animal cause it is not plant food ever so it is carnivore…key being YOU DO OK on it :slight_smile: So you are carnivore, don’t consider yourself one, you are LOL

#15

Unfortunately although I love dairy my face and body greatly disagrees with me. I don’t care about labels either, right now it is all very experimental to me trying to rid myself of inflammation which aggravates my lipoedema and causes swelling. So I will see what happens if I cut down on dairy, though won’t right away cut it out of my life altogether, because that coffee with cream is the highlight of my day lol, and without the cream I don’t fancy the coffee. But I actually enjoy this treat more than any of my meals, it’s just a moment of pure heaven.

#16

I enjoy dairy as well, but I am beginning to see the error of enjoying it in huge quantities. Such as big blocks of butter whenever I’m cooking, loads of cream in my 3-egg omelette and many many blocks of mature cheddar cheese throughout the day as well as yogurt. So I will try to enjoy a slice or two for now as just to spice up my omelette or burger, and keep my coffee with cream, and see where that takes me.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #18

That’s a bummer, but it’s better to acknowledge that a food doesn’t work for us, rather than to insist that “we should be able” to eat a food that others can eat with impunity.

Lactose intolerance, for example, is actually the human default—actually, it’s the mammalian default. We normally lose the ability to produce lactase (the enzyme that digests lactose) sometime between weaning and adulthood. There are, however, two human mutations that allow the production of lactase past weaning, one among the Maasai, the other among northern Europeans.

And of course, a separate issue with dairy is whether one can tolerate the proteins it contains, since they come from another animal (I assume that no one has trouble with the proteins in human milk). We seem to have evolved eating beef, but the milk of cows probably appeared more recently in our diet, so not everyone has adapted to it.

(Robin) #19

I can relate. My morning coffee is my daily delight.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #20

So’s mine, but I drink it black. I had a brief phase of putting heavy cream in it, under the influence of these forums, but decided that I actually prefer it black. (That wasn’t the case when I started drinking coffee forty-five years ago, however!)

#21

I am a northern european, but must’ve missed out on that lucky mutation. I’m not entirely sure, however, if it’s lactose intolerance or if it’s casein intolerance. All I know is dairy seems inflammatory to me, and really aggravates both my roseaca, and the swelling of my lipoedema. But then I tried almond milk, ugh, and in the past I’ve tried oat milk, double ugh. What I haven’t tried yet is coconut-milk so might give that a go. I’ve searched for creamed coconut as an alternative to put in my morning coffee, but can’t find it anywhere in the supermarkeds. So I’ve tried several times in my life to give up dairy, but always end up going back to it for lack of good alternatives, and the worry about calcium.