Dairy Free Challenge - Anyone want to join?

(Veronica) #41

Hi Shinita. We buy a pork shoulder joint once a week, but it’s small and not much value for £5.00 The pork chops are OK but I only really like the fatty part of them, the leaner I eat with some keto friendly vegetables. I think it’s going to have to be, fry the leaner meats in lard and let the fattier meats fry or bake themselves in their own fat. Then I might get the fat/protein ratio right. Of course, I never worried about this when I was indulging in cream, and that was a lot of fat and calories easily consumed. But I will look for some creamed coconut sachets, to make my coffees nice and fatty again.


I started to use the lean meat in scrambled eggs with bacon, it’s good! :slight_smile: I used already boiled meat (from my soup). I fry the fattier parts of a somewhat lean pork (this time I roasted such pieces too) and the lean parts go to a soup, it becomes pretty good (some fat is still there and I often use turkey bones and they have some fat and skin on) but the lean meat isn’t something I like in bigger amounts. So I mix it into other things and it works. I used to mix lean minced meat with yolks and fry… That way it got a bit fattier, it was enough to make it enjoyable, it still didn’t give me much fat…

I used to put boring lean meat into tomato sauce as well after I made eggs in purgatory but that doesn’t help with fat, just taste. Yum.

(Veronica) #43

I’ll have to try that. I fried bacon and eggs for lunch together in a pan which was tasty, had intended to throw in a few sliced mushrooms but I’d run out. For dinner I had a couple burgers with a small serving of broccoli, wasn’t very hungry and I find the burgers very filling. Normally I would have added a nice dollop of butter, some cheese, ah well. I really do prefer fattier meats.


@never2late Following.

In theory I would love to join, but I don’t think I’m capable. But you’re inspiring me to at least cut back, especially the heavy cream in my coffee, and the cheese.

(Megan) #45

Hi @never2late, maybe it was the binging on cream when you briefly tried carnivore, and not to removal of certain nuts and vegetables, that caused your symptoms to get worse? I hope your dairy free trial gives you the results you need. All the best!

(Veronica) #46

Hi Wendy. If you are experiencing no symptomps then I see no reasons why you should give up the dairy, but if you are experiencing symptoms, and suspect dairy is the culprit, then it might be worth, one time to see how your body does without. But cutting down is a good start🙂

(Veronica) #47

Hi Megan. I’m not ruling it out. If giving up dairy for 30 days makes virtually no change to the aches and inflammation I’m suddenly experiencing more of, then I am going to have to eliminate all those keto friendly foods I reinstated to help my lymphatic systen (almonds, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, green beans, mushrooms) for 30 days to see if they could be the problem. I was feeling pretty good when I was carnivore, and I loved the food, but we’ll see. I am also going to be reasonable and at least suspect, in part, that the swap of my Tamoxifen brand could also be to blame. As when you swap brands, or go off a drug, then back on the drug, it can wreak havoc on the body.

(Megan) #48

Hi again @never2late, let’s see if I have the timeline correct.

You went keto and noticed a big improvement in the swelling and pain?
Then you dropped the plant food and went carnivore, but ate a large amount of heavy cream, and experienced an increase in swelling and pain?
You concluded dropping certain plant foods caused the increase in swelling and pain b/c they are considered good for keeping the lymphatic system operating as it should?
You’ve reintroduced the plant foods and have decided to go dairy free for a month, to see if the swelling and pain lessens.

Problem is, you won’t know if any improvement is due to re-adding the lymphatic-system-friendly-veg or going dairy free.

:crazy_face: :stuck_out_tongue:

(Megan) #49

Re dairy, there’s some good info in this video in the latter half.

Epic Talk About All Things Health and Carnivore with Dr Paul Mason, MD! - YouTube

My reaction to going dairy free (hell no!) is talked about too, which made me cringe lol

(Allie) #50

This is very true, best to change one thing at a time.

(Veronica) #51

Hi Megan, thanks for the link, it’s very interesting listening to Dr Paul Mason, actually, as on my morning walk I was just thinking how nice it would have been with a nice hot coffee and cream once I got home, lol. Of course, I have always believed in mind over matter so I will persist in my experiment. And because my skin looks just tragic right now, so spotty even my children are commenting on it, I am keen to see if staying away from dairy will help with that. The almonds, avocados, leafy and cruciferous vegetables, I will keep for now, although I still have some carnivore days (as I prefer that WOE), and I will see how my body feels, if there is any improvement.

(Veronica) #52

I am not ruling out returning to carnivore at some point, if this proves more beneficial. I had almost no pain about a month or two ago when I was still carnivore (and had been for several weeks) but I had yet not made the regrettable switch to another (which my body dealt badly with) Tamoxifen brand: Tillomed. I’ve only been back on my regular brand Wockhardt for about two weeks, and am still dealing with the inflammation and water weight gain caused by Tillomed.

It makes sense to me to give up the dairy, as I was totally overdoing it, for a period of time. If I am then able to reinstate it (it may just be a matter of using moderation) I may then consider going back to carnivore. My main focus is, however, on the lymphatic system and what may, or may not, benefit it, but my situation is a tricky one, dealing with lipedema. Currently I am doing more research into carnivore and whether there is any evidence it could benefit lipedema, also looking into Siobhan Huggins’ research, and generally reading up on the ketogenic diet and the lymphatic system. I am having a plain black coffee as I am writing this. It’s perfectly doable, actually tastes quite sweet.


Oh I am definitely experiencing symptoms! I might have mild lipedema. I’m reading about it since seeing your posts. I always assumed my “joint” pain was from my past Lyme arthritis, but I’m realizing my pain is not just in my joints. I am also of the slim upper body/puffy legs type. I used to have hard nodules around lymph nodes. Those completely disappeared once I went keto and have never returned. But my pain never got too much better.

I tried carnivore, but it didn’t work for me. I ended up gorging on eggs and dairy, because I just don’t love meats. I could not eat enough. One reason I eat vegetables with meats is that it makes me eat more meat. Without them, I simply can’t eat enough. I prefer vegetables and fruit (and dairy LOL)

(Veronica) #54

Hi Wendy. When I began to suspect I had lipoedema I went to my GP who then referred me to a lymphedema clinic. I then received a diagnosis: Secondary lymphedema (due to venous disease). And some similarities related to lipoedema affecting bilateral lower limb.
I have been prescribed a pair of Sigvaris compression tights (pricy) which I am getting for free, as I have medical exemption. I was also adviced to hydrate the skin on my legs daily whilst also performing a lymphatic massage. So, Wendy if you suspect you might have this, either lipoedema or lymphedema or possibly both, you could bring it up with your doctor? As a first step towards achieving a diagnosis, and then access treatment.

Diet wise, I find it very easy, in fact much easier to eat carnivore. As I have a love of meats, and a lesser interest in plants. I did reinstate some plants that I read were meant to benefit the lymphatic system, but really I’ve not much interest for them. Having gone dairy free I am also finding my appetite dwindling. I find a couple meals a day and a couple black coffees, plain, is enough. And I quite enjoy my water now with concentrated drops of lemon juice in it. I’ve never been all that into food other than for the nutrients, but carnivore was a WOE I enjoyed for its good taste and simplicity. And I am thinking of returning to it again, because the tiny amount of plants I’ve been eating and the nutrition and benefits I could get from them, is negligible.


I suppose there are people like this. I ate about 0.25-0.5 pound of meat in the beginning (just partially because I couldn’t eat much meat) but now I often can’t stop at 1 pound… We can change a lot! Maybe you don’t have this, maybe you do, just saying. I always liked meat, I just couldn’t eat it often, originally I ate meat and then I didn’t want it for months… And I definitely didn’t miss it for the 8 years I went without meat eating. I must say I changed a lot. But I couldn’t try carnivore until I was in love with my vegs.

(Veronica) #56

That was never the issue for me, I was never in love with vegetables, I always thought of them in terms of their nutrition more. That they comprised a healthy varied diet. But meats … meats are something else, the very taste of them, hot or cold, delicious, nutritious and wholly satisfying, creating a feeling of wellness and satiety. Though I am still dairy free, and will be for the 30 days I am evaluating, I am considering going back to carnivore. Like, today, I had 10 almonds and 1 avocado in terms of carbs. Yesterday and the day before a few broccoli florets. I imagine the benefits I could achieve from such small amounts of vegetables is negligible.

(KM) #57

I’m not able to do this for a week or so, but my thought is there’s no harm in trying. Maybe I’ll discover some wonderful new feel-good secret of my body I never knew because I basically weaned from breast milk to cow dairy, I’ve never had a dairy free week since. Maybe I’ll just discover I don’t see a benefit and I miss my cream. Won’t know unless I try.


Vegs were pure joy and vital to me :smiley: Well the ones I ate. I didn’t touch grass-like gross dark green leafy vegs :smiley: I tried it with spinach because of Mg… But I just couldn’t eat more than a bite, ew.
But I didn’t think them unhealthy for me back then. I had no idea I need extreme low plant carbs to feel better (mostly mentally, I felt okay physically already, of course it could be better. I would love more energy).

I am curious about your results now and later when you will try carnivore again! Don’t change multiple things so maybe you can go back to carni after this 30 days and then slowly add back dairy? Or add back dairy and after some time go back to carni?

@kib1: If you can do it without big suffering (I can’t imagine not having my darling dairy items right now, maybe later), it’s worth a try! I love experiments, they were quite helpful in my life multiple times! I had almost completely lactose-free years but no dairy, I only did that for a couple of days… They are just too important for me especially on carnivore. I had cheeseless times too. But no dairy at all… :scream:

I try to get used to the idea and may be able to try later, just for a week…
There was a challenge about drinking only water for a month once, I didn’t do it like that but I did it before my first meal a lot and it turned out that I may hate lukewarm water but I like very warm water (I always knew I like cold water). It was winter and I needed my hot drinks!
So sometimes I reject an idea but then it seems easier ans easier every day and I just try it in an incomplete way and learn something valuable from it. I often drink simple quite warm (not exactly hot) water since… It’s nice.

(Veronica) #59

I am only on day 2 dairy free, but no longer miss the cream. I’ve now got lard, so will cook with that tomorrow. And I have come to enjoy drinking my coffee black. It actually taste sweet to me, not bitter at all. I just buy the instant stuff, French blend. Yes, do join me in the dairy free challenge and we’ll see what happens. I am hoping after the challenge I’ll be able to reinstate dairy, but will see. It’ll be interesting to see how the body does without it for a while.

(Veronica) #60

Hi Shinita, I will consider both those ideas, however, I will begin with eliminating dairy for the 30 days. I am currently doing a lot of research into carnivore, and have been reading up on my condition, lipoedema, as well as the ketogenic effect upon the lymphatic system. I have been looking into Siobhan Huggins’ research, and also been listening to Amber O Hearn. It’s certainly interesting. But I will keep the vegetables and nuts for now and keep on with the dairy free challenge. Plain coffee is surprisingly OK in taste. I did buy a creamed coconut block which I will test in the coffee tomorrow.