Dairy Free Challenge - Anyone want to join?

(Bob M) #21

If you do, try to limit yourself to only A2 dairy, and, if you can find it, raw milk.

(Veronica) #22

Hi Bob, could you give me an example of what would be A2 dairy?

(Allie) #23

Already doing this myself, breathing so much easier.

(Veronica) #24

Glad to hear it Allie :slightly_smiling_face: I am hoping for my symptoms to ease off too, and for this whole challenge to tell me whether dairy should be in my life or not. I will post update each completed week. I would love it if you shared your progress too :slightly_smiling_face:

(Bob M) #25

Goat, sheep, certain cows.

More info here:

The raw milk I buy is from Jersey cows (A2 protein).

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #26

Milk is perfectly acceptable on a ketogenic diet; the reason you read so much here about heavy cream is that whole milk does contain lactose and galactose, which are a large part of the carb count. Also, the lower the fat content, the higher the amount of carbohydrate per cup/litre, since it is in the skim part of the milk, not the fat part (i.e., the cream). So as long as you don’t drink so much milk that you exceed your carb limit, milk is fine on keto.

The issue many people have with dairy, apart from the inability to digest lactose, is a reaction to the proteins in milk. But if you have one of the genes that allow people to digest lactose and if you are not sensitive to the proteins, dairy is fine.

Naturally, since grains are mostly carbohydrate, especially after processing, and also many people have a low-grade sensitivity to gluten that they are not aware of until they stop eating grains.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #27

Cooking with bacon grease, lard, coconut oil, or tallow is a good way to avoid the dairy in butter.

(KM) #28

My first response on reading the title of your post was, “oh, hell no.” Which made me wonder if dairy, or at least cheese, is actually as addictive as some say. And made me think that I really should do this challenge myself, as I believe our strongest refusals often point out our weakest places.
… I’ll be a few weeks behind you and interested to see how you’re doing, good luck!

(Robin) #29

I will politely decline your invitation. For now.
The day may come tho.
Right now, I’ve cut my dairy in half and haven’t died yet. Lol

(Veronica) #30

I do think dairy is addictive, I’m definitely addicted to cream. If I have a little I must have more. Cheese, I’m not that keen on actually. What I always find is whenever I give something up I don’t miss it, I don’t crave it. So I think these 30 days without cream, cheese and butter, will be more a challenge of how to wisely replace those calories and that amount of fat. When I was eating less fat and more protein I got ketosis breath (rotten fruit). When I then lowered protein and upped the fat (cream) that ketosis breath went away. Well now it’s back because I increased the protein. And I have a dentist appointment coming up, so I was really glad I had finally got rid of that ketosis breath beast. Guess I’ll have to do a bit of experimenting with fat/protein ratio again.

(Veronica) #31

Hi Robin. I think my problem may have been that I was definitely overdoing the cream, eating more and more of it, since I began to whip it. Then I started getting that lipedema pain coming back and I realised it could be that increase in dairy. At the very start of my WOE I was only having a little bit of cream, the kind you pour, in my coffee, and I was only having max two coffees a day. I went from that to having three coffees and bowls of whipped cream. So I believe this challenge will be a very good reset, will reveal if my inflammation and the bit of lipedema pain that came back was due to all that excessive cream. It didn’t make me gain any weight, however. And it may be I will be able to reinstate it after 30 days, if I discover giving it up makes no difference to how my body feels. I will be posting weekly updates.

One bump in my road already is in dropping my fat intake (cream) and upping the protein my horrid ketosis breath is now back.

(Allie) #32

I’ve done this many times. For over ten years before keto I was dairy free and it was easy, but it crept back in after starting keto as those fatty coffees are just so good… since then it’s come and go, but now I’ve identified a very clear link between dairy intake and mucous congestion which makes it easier to avoid.

This stuff is quite acceptable in coffee. It has some ingredients I’d rather avoid if possible, but I’m having to compromise here.

(Veronica) #33

Hi Allie, I’ve had a bit of an issue with mucuous congestion too, I was starting to get a lot of phlegm and ending up hoarse as well as having a constant sniffle, perhaps it’s coincidental, just a cold I haven’t been able to lose… It will be interesting to see if it improves whilst staying dairy free.
Yes those fatty coffees are so good aren’t they? Particularly in the cold months. Such an easy winter comfort drink, ah well. I might be able to reinstate the cream (albeit a lesser amount of it) after the 30 days. As to replacing cream, I will be staying clear of anything with extra ingredients, so will be looking for some creamed coconut sachets.

(Veronica) #34

Thanks for the tip Paul. I will be frying my bacon in the pan for lunch and use the bacon fat to fry my eggs in too. It will probably not end up the most beautiful plate of food, but it will taste good. I am a bit concerned that if I increase my meat intake my ketosis breath will return. It seemed to have come back this morning. I know when I lowered my protein, but upped the fat (which I got mainly by eating a lot of cream) my ketosis breath went away.

(Allie) #35

That’s what it was like with me, constant sore throat and runny / stuffy nose. As soon as I stopped the dairy the throat stopped hurting and other symptoms improved.

(Veronica) #36

Hi Allie. I’m glad your symptomps have cleared up for you🙂I wouldn’t say my throat is sore, but I am often having to clear it, and my nose becomes runny whenever I head out into the cold. So cold at the moment we have lovely powder-white snow. My main concern is body aches and pain in my legs, particularly calves and ankles (I have varicose veins). The generalised body aches might just as well be the Tamoxifen combined with the winter cold, as my body always aches more when it’s cold. But I will see if any of these symptomps clear up. If nothing changes, then at least I know it’s not the dairy that is the problem.


Eat more fat then, what is hard in it? I regularly (if we look at it from the right angle, basically always) overeat fat, it’s my super power or something. But I do the same with protein too.
Never had keto breath, fortunately :slight_smile:

I have my egg milks as warm comfort/dessert drinks, I used to drink them with coffee most of the time, now that I stopped drinking coffee, I still drink them sometimes. Sadly, they are less superb without a little cream (and I still use butter in them! still not enough. butter is optional, by the way but helps a bit) but sometimes I feel different, maybe the ratio, using the right amount of vanilla or I don’t know what makes it just as good as a creamy thing… Or I am not the same, that’s quite possible. With coffee it was closer to a creamy one, different, of course but still very good and I rarely felt it’s lacking.

But maybe it’s mostly for egg maniacs like me. Though I sometimes only use a little in a coffee, it doesn’t make it a wonderfulness as cream, even less than lots of it - but it still loses its blackness I dislike.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #38

If you are cutting down on the cream, why can’t you increase other sources of fat? You could eat fattier cuts of meat, cook with a bit more lard or bacon grease—and the other suggestions were to add cheese, which of course I had to edit out because you’re going dairy-free. But an avocado or two during the week ought to help, if you like them. Boy! This is tougher than I thought at first, but I’m sure you’ll figure things out. If you eat salad, olive oil and vinegar are a good way to add fat to the greens.

I sympathise with your addictive reaction to cream. It doesn’t affect me that way, but bread is my downfall. Even “just a taste” leads to problems.

(Veronica) #39

Thank you Paul. For lunch today (I didn’t bother with breakfast) I fried bacon in the pan and then used their fat to fry the eggs too, was a simple but tasty meal, made all the tastier adding one avocado.
Then I had my coffee plain.
Dinner will be two of my favourite Aberdeen Angus burgers with some steamed broccoli. And then I suppose another coffee, plain. My usual dessert would have been a bowl of whipped cream. But I can live for a while without dessert. I add lemon and lime now to my water which makes it both refreshing and sweet. When I have more fatty meats at hand I shall certainly relish them, I am partial to a pork shoulder joint or some pork belley. But I can’t always get hold of this, so my go to fat source is currently avocado and bacon. Though I will put lard on the list.


I couldn’t get much fat from avocado and bacon… I would make some fatty sauce and pour it on eggs (or meat)… A yolk, lard and some flavoring, maybe mustard, that’s nice…

It’s hard. I kept minimizing added fat and now I am somewhat lost if I think about how to add it… I just eat fatty meat, that’s the simplest for me.
Is it hard to buy some fatty meat for you? That’s unfortunate. Sometimes even I don’t have it but I always can buy something in the supermarket… Even if not fresh meat.