Dairy Free Challenge - Anyone want to join?

(Veronica) #61

Day 3 on my dairy free challenge and feeling no change so far, but it’s early days. Fried 5 eggs and a whole lot of bacon in lard for lunch, and it tasted great, so not hard at all to replace butter.

Onwards with the challenge, and if anyone wants to join, please do🙂


@MeganNZ Thanks for the video. He thinks one reason some people don’t do well on a keto WOE is overconsumption of dairy and eggs, which can induce autoimunity. Fish and nuts are also mentioned.

I feel like those of us with autoimmune conditions are dealing with far more complicated (and poorly understood) challenges in finding the ideal WOE – compared to people with metabolic syndrome, weight issues or food addictions. For the latter three, keto is a no-brainer. For others (like me), different sorts of “elimination” diets might be needed. Dairy is definitely on the elimination list for me – if I can ever muster the will! (I’ve definitely cut down the past few days.)

Another approach (mentioned in the video) is to cut out all the suspect items and add them back one at a time. That might be a quicker test. You first narrow down to see if any in the group elicit an effect before going through the one-by-one process. On the other hand, if you are also testing the addition of certain therapeutic foods, that gets even more complicated!

(Veronica) #63

Hi Wendy, it’s easy to start thinking everything in one’s WOE could potentially be causing problems, particularly as you say if one suffers from an auto-immune condition. Then it gets complicated. It also gets complicated when one is on certain medications that can also affect one’s body and how it feels. So one could be at it, eliminating this and that, endlessly, adding something back in, then deciding to eliminate it once more, and it could become a vicious circle whilst searching for that holy grail of the perfect WOE or the perfect health, ultimately messing up the gut biome. I have found adding back in a few vegetables and nuts, they don’t pose a problem to me. But I fell in love with the simplicity of carnivore, as I’m a rubbish cook.

So far, going dairy free, I am feeling no difference at all. But it is only day 3. Though something tells me I won’t feel a difference in a week or two or three either. I have come to recognise the side effects of my Tamoxifen. It causes daily fatigue, headaches and body aches. So I have these still, and I am beginning to doubt not having any dairy will address that. But I will persist.

I’m still convinced, however, keto is something I want to do for life. Because it keeps my weight and lipoedema in check, and the pain and inflammation is significantly reduced, just not entirely gone. I am sure, however, the benefits of eating this way would be more if I wasn’t on Tamoxifen, so I have to factor that in. Nothing is ever as easy as just eating this, giving up that, it’s many years and probably a lifetime of trial and error.

Lastly I would say go with how your body feel and know your body well enough rather than lean on science or nutritional advice too much. Ultimately it’s your life, your body, your health and only you can feel and ultimately know what is right for you.

(Veronica) #64

Down with a cold and feeling just off. I’ve hardly noticed any change since abstaining from dairy. I seem to be shedding a bit more water, but then I’ve upped my hydration. I’ve also incorporated a daily lymphatic massage into my lipoedema care regime which seem to help alongside daily walks. As to dairy supposedly clogging the lymphatic system, well the same thing is claimed about fat, and conventionally raised meat. So … I hereby end my dairy challenge and go back to the keto WOE I enjoy and can see myself doing long term. Life is simply too short.

(Robin) #65

Amen, life is way too short. Embrace your joy where you find it!


@never2late How are you feeling? Where did you settle on with your diet? Thanks for sharing your experiences!

(Veronica) #67

Hi Wendy, I settled on life is too short so I reinstated dairy again, and I am feeling great. Enjoying my WOE and feeling youthful. Today I saw the dentist and my teeth were fine. I attribute it to this healthy way of eating. My staples cream, cheese, bacon and eggs, and any meat I fancy to eat, as well as a small amount of nuts and some cruciferous vegetables.


That’s great to hear!! Do you feel like your pain level is lower now? I know autoimmune pain has unpredictable patterns. I have personally found it near impossible to identify associations with my diet as long as i keep it generally “healthy”.

(Veronica) #69

Hi Wendy, yes my pain and inflammation is much better now. It was due to having had to swap my regular Tamoxifen brand for one my body didn’t tolerate. Now, almost a month taking my regular brand, all the pain, swelling and inflammation appears to be settling again. So I know dairy wasn’t to blame.
I have never been diagnosed with an auto-immune disease so I assume I don’t have that. In the case of auto-immune disease it gets more tricky with food, as the body may develop, if I’m not mistaken, various food intolerances. Auto-immune means essentially the body attacking itself, and anything it perceives a threat upon which inflammation would occur.
Are you on any medication that might be causing side effects?


Oh, I guess I assumed lipoedema was autoimmune. I’m not on any meds but I’m curious to see if cutting out certain triggering foods can help my pain (which I’m pretty sure is autoimmune in nature). The list in the Mason video above mentioned dairy, eggs, nuts, wheat and seafood. Dairy and eggs would be extremely difficult for me!

(Veronica) #71

Hi Wendy, the first thing to do if you suspect you might have lipoedema is see your doctor. Then, she/he can either diagnose you or refer you to someone more knowledgable about lipoedema.

Now, I’ve learned a thing or two about my lipoedema on my healing journey.

  1. It is a common condition. My varicose surgeon has treated many lipoedema ladies, and I myself now see ladies - they are virtually everywhere - with the same leg shape as me.

  2. Despite lipoedema being common, many doctors don’t know about it, and unfortunately many ladies struggle to obtain a diagnosis. Thus it tends to be caught once in the later stages.

  3. It is hereditary, same as varicose. My mother has both varicose and the same lipoedema leg shape.

Now regarding diet. I am of an age that if I function well on a WOE I leave it at that. Also, I have come to take what certain experts, nutritionists and doctors say with a pinch of salt. My new mantra is Life is too short. My ketogenic WOE is sustainable, has reduced my lipoedema pain greatly, and improved my mobility. Now my health will never be perfect. There will always be the occasional aches, being on Tamoxifen. Or, as a part of just getting older. We cannot obtain perfect health. The only thing doctors and nutritionists generally agree upon currently is that we all should cut down on sugar, refined carbohydrates and processed food. Other than that people are so divided on the matter of food that wherever you turn confusion ensues. In the end I have decided to lean less on science, listen less to so-called experts and go with what feels right. We only have one body and one life. And I am not just living for myself, I have a family, my SO and our two little boys, which dissuades me from being too experimental. I need my energy and my quality of life. And though I’ll never achieve perfect health whilst on Tamox, I can achieve the best health for me.

All I can advise Wendy is you listen to your body and if you think something is making you ill, causing inflammatiom, then consider cutting it out for a while to see if it helps. But me personally, I wouldn’t do it simply because an ‘expert’ talked about how it would be beneficial to give up various nutrient-dense foods, because there is a lot of bias there. Some will say too much meat will harm you and some will say too many plants will harm you. And rather than looking at individual circumstances, I do believe there is a lot of bias there. I still remember growing up thinking you should only eat eggs and bacon on the weekend. Now I enjoy them everyday.

Lastly I would say Dr Mason’s list of foods to potentially avoid would deprive you of quite a lot of nutrients. That’s just my opinion as I’m certainly no expert on nutrition. All you can do is live the best life you can live, and be the best you you can be. Life is short, so find enjoyment where you can, and make peace with the fact that that holy grail of perfect health, it just doesn’t exist. We have good days and bad days. Tired days and energetic days. And rather than thinking primarily of foods as culprits to any given health issue, there’s the air we breathe, the way we handle stress, the quality of our sleep, the level of our fitness, the toxins everywhere around us, and it simply boils down to this: We just can’t eliminate it all and obtain perfect bodies and perfect health, as we age the free radicals will continue to do their work. We start to decay from a certain age, but there is also beauty there in that acceptance, and happiness in making peace with ourselves as we are. Positivity goes such a long way, and encouraging self pep talk. And of course staying active as we are not meant to be sedentary couch potatoes. Nor are we meant to spend too much time indoors. I’m blessed with beautiful countryside on my doorstep so I always try to get my daily dose of that. Oh, and breathing exercises and mindfullness, are also helpful tools to improve health. What I’m trying to say is in order to stay somewhat healthy one ought perhaps to focus more on the whole picture, as both body and mind is amazingly complex.