Confusing results zero carb

(Erin Macfarland ) #1

Been doing zero carb last couple of days, I tested BG and blood ketones this afternoon. I fasted until about noon then had a couple large pieces of brisket. I ran 4 miles prior to my first meal then ran 25 min and lifted weights again a few hours later. I tested my BG at 86 and ketones at .8, about an hour after I finished my workout. Are these readings higher and lower respectively because I tested so soon after my workout? I was expecting lower BG and higher ketones in the abscence of any carbohydrates

(Blyss (Old @Charmaine)) #2

Your post is incomplete.

(Erin Macfarland ) #3

Ha I realized that…fixed it :slight_smile:

(Blyss (Old @Charmaine)) #4

You worked out a lot and then tested too soon before your body leveled out. However, your numbers are still great for post workout. Your bg could have been even higher and ketones lower, it can happen so just be prepared. I usual measure my bg around 2-3 hours after my workout. But that’s because I workout really early in the morning and so won’t measure until between 9-10am before I eat.

#5

I agree with @Charmaine-OLD - you measured too soon after your workout and glycogen that was released was still circulating.

I literally just paused this podcast to check the forums and Dr. Nally just finished explaining this exact thing to someone who did the exact same thing!

http://ketotalk.com/2017/01/49-cheese-high-intensity-workouts-blood-thinners-psoriatic-arthritis-advanced-glycation-endproducts/

(Erin Macfarland ) #6

Hahahah! The minute I finished posting this question I saw the new Doc Nally podcast and started listening and heard his explanation! Hilarious!

(Kerri Hines) #7

Have you heard of the glucose ketone index?

You would use a fasting bg number but this should give you a better snapshot of the glucose/ketone relationship.

“If it turns out that fasting insulin is approximately equivalent to GKI then perhaps we should be aiming for a GKI of somewhere less than 6 for general health (based on Guyenet’s definition of optimal), with people battling more serious issues such as cancer or epilepsy targeting 2 or below?”

(Erin Macfarland ) #8

Very cool!

(Genevieve Biggs) #9

I think @Richard discussed on one podcast (forget which!) about BG being increased after a workout because of your body producing extra glucose for said workout. So that’s not about ZC, that’s just exercise.

(Erin Macfarland ) #10

YES! Very helpful!

(Erin Macfarland ) #11

So today I had some fatty beef and bacon, did a short weight workout a while ago, measured BG and ketones and while the BG was good at 69, my ketones were .3! That’s crazy, I usually only have readings that low after over doing keto “treats”. Why the low reading ? My numbers are usually between.5 and 1.5. Does zero carb lower ketones?

#12

Remember that ketones in the blood are only the ones not actually being used yet and just on their way to being used.

@richard has speculated, and I agree with him, that when someone is deep enough into being fat-adapted, they will see lower blood ketones because their body is using them better. I believe that Dr. Dominic D’Agostino has also made this point.

I think ketone testing is like weighing on the scale - doing it too often leads to confusing results and the best indicator is testing at the same time whether that is daily, weekly, etc. and charting over time. Personally I find that testing in the morning, but a couple of hours after I’m awake because I experience the “Dawn Phenomenon” has a good correlation with how I feel; if ketones are low then, I usually feel worse at that time, too.

There’s probably more variability in the rising and falling of ketones rise in response to food and activity and I think they’re more disconnected than expected when testing after eating certain foods and/or exercising.

In other words, the relationship between blood glucose and food/activity is pretty tight, but I don’t think ketones respond along the same timeline, unless blood glucose is high and then the body deliberately avoids making ketones in order to get the blood glucose down.

Are carnivores happy? And the importance of fibre
(Erin Macfarland ) #13

Interesting, I agree with you and I know the number can be the result of multiple things, just strange that eating zero carb (and still making sure to not over do the protein) would produce that low of a number. I try to just test once every other day or so but am checking daily while doing zero carb to get an idea of how it’s affecting my readings. I’ve seriously had huge amounts of chocolate, peanut butter, keto cookies and gotten that low of a reading. So, I’ll keep an eye on the trend. Like I posted yesterday I tested pretty shortly after a fairly intense workout and still got a .8 reading. Not too worried about it but still curious. Bedsides I cannot believe the energy and mental clairity from eating just meat and fat. A step up from keto that incorporates plant foods for sure.

(Genevieve Biggs) #14

Yes, a few things.

As The Bear says somewhere in that giant exchange I shared, you adapt much faster with zero carbs, so you are flushing less ketones. And as @DaveKeto talks about here: http://cholesterolcode.com/a-simple-guide-to-cholesterol-on-low-carb-part-i/ the primary fuel is fatty acids, not ketones. If you’re eating ZC, and you were keto before, you are most likely running on fat. :wink:

However, if you have a particular reason for specifically wanting a ketone reading, Amber discusses that here:

(Dave) #15

Per @BillJay’s comment, I too am constantly trying to explain the difference between that which is in your bloodstream vs that which is in your cells. Concentration of something in the bloodstream can imply usage, but it is not determinative.

While hormones can heavily influence cell behavior globally, at the end of the day they actually choose their intake through a series of receptors and chemical reactions via internal regulation.

This is why it’s difficult to tell what is getting used and what is getting spared – at a cellular level. For example, I’m very confident my body is sparing more glucose now than what it was before I started Keto given its ratio with my fasting insulin. (But not certain, of course)

(Erin Macfarland ) #16

AWESOME! :heart: thank you!

(Erin Macfarland ) #17

This is one of the confounding factors of doing ZC while being very lean and active. It seems the quantity of food is a LOT. But man I get so hungry. I’m doing significantly more activity than Amber, at least 7 hours per week. So clearly I need to fuel myself with out my body thinking it’s starving. I think I will also try adding more fats since I have low body fat stores I can’t draw on them for much energy.

(Genevieve Biggs) #18

Sounds like a plan. And you have just started ZC too, so don’t be afraid of the meat. :wink:

(Erin Macfarland ) #19

So in Amber’s article she discussed using HIIT for increasing ketones while not restricting protein and she’s getting significantly higher ketone readings which I’m interpreting as being a positive phenomenon. As I mentioned I’m transitioning to ZC and while my BG numbers are great I’ve been having the lower ketone readings despite being a well trained athlete, and engaging in HIIT training as well as longer duration lower zone cardio. Is it possible I’m not seeing the higher ketone readings because i came info this already being very fit? I know I shouldn’t be over thinking this or weighing ketone readings too heavily but it feels so discouraging to look at a .3 reading when I’ve been working so hard and feel great. I guess too much emphasis is placed on those numbers…but still!!!

(Sondra Rose) #20

Context is everything. Amber needs the higher ketones for her brain health. Others may need them for cancer or other health issues.

There is no need for higher ketones in the context of weight loss, general health or diabetes prevention, as far as I know.

I suspect your overall activity level is much higher than Amber’s and you are simply burning off most of your ketones.