Conflicting Macro Allotment

(Melissa Brewer) #1

So I started this Keto journey (second time I’ve done it) January 13. I was strict (with varying degrees of logging foods) Up until Feb 22 when I went a little over alcohol and some “off limit food.” (Fried cheese curds one night at dinner, some potato chips and a piece of fried brie the next at dinner). I even bought a blood ketone meter and have started logging my ketones/glucose for GKI.

I have not lost weight nor do I feel any difference in body composition. I do, however, feel a difference in my depression, anxiety, and overall energy levels.

I am stumped, but also just realized tonight that depending on the program I’m using or which calculator my calories per day vary IMMENSELY. I am 5’ 10’, 30 years old, a female, and I weigh now 262 lb. My fitness pal says 2349 a day, Carb Manger 2280 (w/ 20% deficity), Ruled.Me says 1782, wholesome yum is 1009 (with 20% deficit) and tasteaholic is 1682.

Like, that’s a huge discrepancy and could this be affecting it? Most days I stay between 1800-2200 depending on the day, and how long I’m awake! (I’m a nurse and work nights so I usually sleep between 8a-3p on work days and 4a-1p days off)

(Alec) #2

Which is why our advice is nothing to do with calories. We say eat to satiety. Just keep your carbs as low as possible, preferably under 20g. All those calculators are just confusing. Ignore them.

(Scott) #3

I went away from MFP and went keto because I hated logging (and it didn’t work long term). You are using five apps to log each meal? Trash the apps and KCKO.

(Carl Keller) #4

This :arrow_up: worked for me. One of the most valuable lessons you can learn from LCHF is understanding your hunger and making the right response to it. Given that, I would estimate anywhere from 1300-2000 calories would be enough to satisfy your hunger and create enough of a caloric deficit to promote the burning of body fat.

Some things you might consider or try:

Reduce the amount of dairy and/or nuts you are eating since these are very easy to eat in excess of intention.

Reduce your eating window and see how your hunger responds. You might be surprised to see that you can eat dinner and then nothing all the way to lunch time the next day, without real hunger. It’s arguable that no animal on this planet that eats nutrient dense foods, needs three or even two meals per day to thrive (if said animal has access to an ample amount of food).

Reduce or avoid artificial sweetners because while they may not cause a spike in blood glucose levels, they usually cause an insulin spike. The longer and more often we keep insulin at rest, the better it will act when it goes to do its job and the more opportunity we will have to burn body fat. Artificial sweeteners can also trick our bodies into wanting to eat when we aren’t really hungry.

Avoid snacking. Eating more protein and fat at meal time is far better than eating small amounts every few hours and constantly calling on insulin.

Avoid stress. Raising cortisol levels can undo our best efforts to lose weight. You can do everything perfectly, but if cortisol is active, weight loss will be extremely difficult.

Sounds like you are on the right track. I believe if you keep pushing onward, try to relax and make the right response to your hunger, more good things are bound to occur.

(Robert C) #5

Hi @MBrew180,

As I see it, you have two big rocks to deal with here:

  1. You are intermingling non-Keto and Keto concepts. Calculators that give you targets are definitely non-Keto. Even in your title, you use the word “Allotment” - this is where you want to change your thinking. For example, a 2000 calorie daily allotment would mean on days you are under, you’ll seek extra calories (maybe not from the best places). On days you are on track for going over - you’ll want to think about how to restrict - both definitely not Keto (psychologically, deprivation likely leads to rebellious overconsumption). If you are always at least hitting the 2000 calorie limit - and some days going over - not a recipe for weight loss! Instead, you want to focus on Keto’s main tenants - carbs under 20, moderate protein and fat to satiety (could be a 1400 calorie day and then a 2500 calorie day and then a day you forget to eat until late and have one 1000 calorie meal for the day). This is necessary to get to the positive “never be hungry” state Keto promises.
  2. Night work has special needs in terms of hormones. If you have not already read or listened to the book “Why We Sleep” - it might be a very good idea if you will continue to work nights. Non-circadian work patterns really mess things up and one of your weapons is Keto’s ability to help get hormones to improve. But (per #1 above), your best results will probably come from really giving yourself over to Keto psychology - really depending on satiety signaling instead of trying to match some apps idea of intake.

“Why We Sleep” author is interviewed in this video - you may find some good things in it for both hormones and non-circadian work:

#6

I’d recommend this calc as it allows for way more detail than most https://www.ketogains.com/calculator/ once you go off plan you basically gotta ignore ketones and weight for a week, you’ll burn off the carbs fast enough, but there’s an after effect mainly water retention and if you ate enough to replenish muscle glycogen then that won’t come back off until you burn it off working out.

Different calc’s use different methods, some just assume a BMR based on “typical” and do blind math on what is a deficit for you. Some take into consideration BF%, workout duration and type, TEF, the list goes on. All of them are only an educated guess, and there’s no rule saying that your metabolism fits into the equation.

I’m going to go against the theme of eating to satiety when you have issues loosing. I did it myself for a little over a year and it DID work… until it didn’t. I workout 5-6 days a week and lift 4 of them. I also have a decently physical job so one would THINK my hunger would throttle to give me enough fuel to get everything I needed. It didn’t. After months of little to no progress I just assumed that it was a plateau my body needed to work through, very little moved in that time and anything that came off added itself right back on. I KNEW that I wasn’t eating enough, but convinced myself if I actually “needed” to eat more than my body would simply increase my hunger, it didn’t. I was a dude, over 200lbs, lifting, and eating less than 2000 cals a day and 2000 is typically “normal” for most and that’s not including all the physical activity.

Long story short my BMR had slowed down from not eating enough and even being lower in calories was holding me where I was. First thing I had to do was figure out what I was actually burning because no calc would have me right at that point. I found if I stayed under around 1400 cals I’d slowly loose so that was my starting point. I watched some videos from Layne Norton on reverse dieting, and put it do play. Started raising my daily calories and upping it a little every week. At first you gain a little because you’re eating at a surplus but you stay the course and force your metabolism to get off it’s ass and do something. Usually once or twice a week I’d also REALLY ramp up the cals (hello keto cheesecake) to around 4000 or so. I eat around 3000/day now and don’t gain. Still have some body fat to loose but NOW if I drop the cals down I’ll loose.

There’s a constant theme of totally ignoring calories, and putting 100% of the math on the hormones which is just as wrong as the people who put 100% of the math on the calories and ignore the hormonal part of it. They BOTH matter! How much it matters for each person is individual. Some people get away with things that others don’t. Gotta find what works for you.