Coconut fat good or bad?

(Oliver ) #1

Right so I have certain interest in the coconut fruit. Now the question is how healthy coconut fat is. There seem to have been quite a lot of information recently that to much saturated fat can be dangerous and you should not consume to much of it. But I must state that its hard to not state impossible to stay low carb without consume more fat then unseal. Now I can like maybe understand that it maybe not be a good idea to consume to much saturated fat from animals but is the same true for coconut? Iam thinking that because its from a plant based source it should be ok to consume at *least some right?

*I think it is ok to consume some animal fat as well but yeah guess it maybe make sense to pay a little bit attention to it at least.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

I’m not sure how saturated fat can be dangerous, but . . .

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#3

I am with @PaulL and virtually everyone else on this forum… By the way, that butter pic is so, so lovely :smiley: Aesthetically pleasing while bringing back some blissful butter eating memories lately…

I consider saturated fat quite good, no matter if it’s coconut oil, butter, lard or the saturated fat part of my beloved eggs. How could I eat not a ton of saturated fat on carnivore-ish, the best diet I have ever found? And why?
In our household we use coconut fat (mostly my SO) and lard (mostly me), sometimes chicken fat, they are so fatty, I get a little cupful sometimes when cooking a tiny hen… And of course, sometimes butter. I use minimal added fat though as my staple ingredients are quite fatty despite eating as lean as I can bring myself to.

I don’t know how to eat less saturated fat but if you find some good sources, it’s fine I guess, it’s not a must to eat lots of saturated fat or much fat to begin with (if your energy need is low enough and/or your body fat is high enough to pull it off). I heard about people doing low-fat keto, I don’t know what their definition of low-fat was though. If I eat <80g fat, that’s quite low to me and it’s not a bad number for some. And it’s not even all saturated fat…

(B Creighton) #4

It really doesn’t matter if saturated fat is from a plant-based source or animal based source imho. Palmitic acid is still palmitic acid no matter which source it is from. That is, it is still the exact same molecule. There is really no good science showing saturated fat is “harmful.” Really… I challenge you to find a long-term randomized controlled trial showing this. Good luck. Why can I say this? Because it is not so. Actually, one of the best studies ever done was unpublished for a number of years because they didn’t like the result… the corn oil patients died more than the saturated fat patients. Can too much saturated fat be “harmful?” Well it can definitely make you gain weight if eaten with carbs and/or sugar. However, compared to too much fructose, which is going to cause lots of saturated palmitate visceral fat, it is harmless.

(Geoffrey) #5

Saturated fat is the healthiest fat you can eat.
Seed oils are the absolute worst fat you can use and fruit fats are less bad but animal fats are the best fats to use for everything.

#6

Even without that, I heard about carnivores gaining fat due to forcefully eating a ton of fat… I can’t say it was true but I suppose yes, at least some people are able to gain fat if they overeat, even without much carbs. But it’s bad enough when it just KEEPS us fat. And I personally don’t consider overeating good, polite, or healthy even if one keeps their pretty okay body composition. So it’s best to eat as much fat as we need and not a lot more. Usually. I really can understand the occasional splurge :slight_smile: Fat is lovely and I always was very used to eating it galore. Until low-carb. But I still have the desires to do so and I should keep me back while still having a great time at the kitchen table.

(Bob M) #7

Some “food” for thought:

While I don’t believe any saturated fat is “bad”, we tend to think of “saturated fat” as being this monolithic thing, but there are short chain versions, long chain versions, and even/odd chain versions. People even think some raise LDL while others lower/don’t change LDL, but when you start thinking that way, you run into so many issues. If I eat a steak that has both palmitic acid (C16:0, OMG, terrible for you, a KILLER!, “known” to raise LDL) and stearic acid (C:18:0, supposedly angelic because it supposedly lowers LDL or at least doesn’t raise it), what is the result? To me, I think it’s meaningless.

But it becomes even more complex with coconut oil, which is largely shorter chain saturated fatty acids, some of which help raise ketones.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #8

Don’t forget the mono-unsaturates, which are also very good for us.

Absolutely! :bacon::bacon::bacon:

(B Creighton) #9

This is debatable, and I will debate it. Natural seed oils are usually healthy AND a good source of the essential fats. We have to have both Omega 3 and Omega 6 PUFAs - or we will eventually die. Our brains are largely comprised of Omega 3s… which I will admit are best obtained from animal sources, but can be obtained from Omega 3 ALA fat from plants, and for this reason this fat alone is technically considered the only essential fat. Plant and animal PUFA fats come with natural antioxidants because nature seeks to protect these easily oxidized fats from becoming oxidized with these antioxidants. So, I argue that getting these oils naturally from plants is healthy and safe. However, “seed oils” in the form bought from stores are far from natural, and have become oxidized even before you purchase them. I consider them a man-made fat. Cooking with them really is not a good idea. Virgin coconut oil is an exception because it is not refined and concentrated so still is full of polyphenols. It is also mostly saturated fat. It is also comprised of about 15% of MCT saturated fats, which I believe are quite desirable for several reasons, and can be considered essential for human babies. This idea that no good fats can come from plants is false. Unfortunately, the seed oil industry was able to successfully promote itself after WWII, and replaced the largely healthy coconut oil industry in the states. That said, I stay away from refined coconut oil, refined avocado oil, etc.

However, not even the refined seed oils are the worst fats. The absolute worst fats are hydrogenated fats - and these can be animal fats to a limited extent if overcooked.

(Bob M) #10

I don’t think there’s such a thing as “natural seed oils”. We can get oil from olives, but all we have to do it put them into a container. The oil comes out of them.

Find some soybeans. (I have some at home to make natto.) Let me know how you get the oil out of them. I could say the same for rapeseed or any of the other seeds. There’s no way to get oil out of them without a ton of processing.

(Geoffrey) #11

I don’t think it is debatable in the least. Seed oils are nothing more than machine oil. Not really fit for human health. As the old saying goes you can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig.
Seed oils are one of most detrimental things to our health along with sugar. Even the grain, prior being heated to the point it becomes rancid and then has to be deodorized and bleached so it can be used, is bad enough. Seeds and seed oils are contributing factors in heart disease and cancer. No thanks, I’ll pass.
We have been eating animal fats as long as we’ve been breathing with no health issues as a result.
It wasn’t until the Industrial Revolution when seed oils came on the scene that we started seeing heart attacks and cancer rates becoming noticeable. When once the were unheard of they are now number one and two on the hit parade for death.
There is a reason why, when we cut out sugar, grains and seed oils from our diet, that our health immediately improves. Inflammation is the leading cause of most of our metabolic problems today and seed oils are a major contributor to that inflammation.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

I’m not sure there is actually such a thing as a “natural” seed oil.

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#14

To nitpick that, it’s partially-hydrogenated (trans) fats that are an issue. Fully hydrogenated is fine.

(Mark Rhodes) #15

We have had this conversation a few times. Back in 2023 Paul Mason stated his opinion that saturated coconut fat should not get a free pass as it is plant based.

(B Creighton) #16

Well there is, but we just don’t think of it that way. Natural seed oils are not concentrated and refined. What I mean by that term is that they are found in their natural form inside the food with the natural antioxidants nature has there to prevent these easily oxidized fats from becoming oxidized. In plants this is typically natural vitamin E, in seafood it is often astaxanthin, etc. When man removes these fats, concentrates them, and refines them, they have the potential to become oxidized. I don’t need to tell you that. And then the natural ratio we need gets all screwed up too. These are essential fats, but our bodies like them in fairly equal ratios, and the ratios are way out of wack in the SAD, which also presents problems. Anywhoooo, natural seed oils good… refined seed oils bad. To say all seed oils are bad is just not accurate. That is what I mean. In fact the natural ones represent essential fats our bodies have to have one way or another. That does not mean we cannot get them from animals, because we can…that does not change the fact that they are essential fats, and good in their natural, unrefined form.

(B Creighton) #17

Well, this particular notion should be dispelled. A Polynesian culture with one of the highest saturated fat consumptions in the world, was perfectly healthy and free of CAD until the SAD and soda came along. Now it is one of the most obese, ridden with diabetes and yes, heart disease. They obviously need to go back to their high saturated fat, coconut based diet. Man has been eating plenty of coconut for millenia… and doing quite well. It has been railed against exactly because it is so high in saturated fat, when I think that is what makes it so safe for cooking. It is also an excellent source of MCTs, perhaps the best in the plant kingdom. So, if you want to use MCTs, guess where you are getting them from?

(Mark Rhodes) #18

I think Paul being a carnivore was making quite a different point, he didn’t say it was unhealthy, just that a free pass might not be the best thing (if carniovre). He also makes sure to clarify it as his opinion not based on any science. As to the health qualities you suggest the Polynesian people have, yep I will agree. But I will also assert they also have higher carb counts than others. Why? They live closer to areas that have fruits and the like year round, which might have alterred their metabolism enough over the millenium. That’s hard to say and just my opinion.

I firmly beleive that had we been allowed to evolve to a dual fuel system, we would not have anywhere near the level of diabetes we do. What happened is we became grain consumers much quicker than evolution could adapt to coupled with frequnt feedings and eventually ultra processed food stuffs. I think the idea of BLUE ZONES demonstrates this well enough.

(B Creighton) #19

We do have a dual fuel system. That is plain. Our bodies make enzymes specifically for the digestion of carbs, and other plant nutrients. The reason we have diabetes like we do is because our bodies are not designed to take in refined, processed carbs and sugars not found in nature. I agree that the overconsumption of grains can also be a problem. We are not designed to live on grains anymore than the cows we feed them to are. We give cattle the same metabolic disease we give ourselves, but excuse it because we like the more tender, marbled meat… that is USDA “grade A.” In my opinion it should be grade B at best. People in the Blue zones eat a good amount of carbs and animal foods. I believe that is because that is what is healthiest. We are clearly designed for it. But 60%+ of calories from grains? No, we are not designed for that. I agree.

(Mark Rhodes) #20

We do not have a true dual system. If it was a true dual system it wouldn’t fail for any reason. Most people think carbs are the first thing handled by the body, it is not- alcohol is. A known toxin is handled first. I supppose the body adapted to being able to ingest certain toxins like alcohol and…well is it possible that carbs are not as much a fuel source as it is a toxin? Or it is a amore explosive fuel source and more like a toxin than fuel? What makes a toxin? dose, not substance.

An electric / gas car is true dual system. An engine that uses nitrous injection can damage the engine. In this example nitrous injection is the same as glucose. BAM energy. Speed and oops, damage if used to long or too explosively ( there goes my oil rings/ pancreas)

I would say people around the equator are evolved for it certainly. I am not sure if you gave a 1700 period artic person that level of carbohydrates that the Blue Zone gets, if the artic person could it it without without repercussions.

(B Creighton) #21

We are probably the closest to a true dual fuel system on the planet then… Which is probably the reason we have survived when we are relatively fragile and helpless compared to most mammals. I don’t think there is another animal on the planet which eats as many different foods as does man. We were totally dual fueled in nature. We just changed nature, and then changed it some more with the industrial revolution. In other words we are dual fueled if you omit man-made foods. That simply cannot be denied. And I believe the blue zones prove that… they eat both plant and animal foods essentially without exception.