Chocolate is a processed evil

(Karim Wassef) #29

It was called “the food of the gods” for a reason.

(KCKO, KCFO) #30

I seem to handle oxalates ok, not every one can. Spinach is one of my favorite greens and it is loaded with them. I do eat pretty much cooked spinach only now, used to love spinach salads.

I have always said I would never give up chocolate nor wine. I’m going well without shutting those out of my life. I wouldn’t have been doing this WOE as long as I have if I couldn’t have those two things, the last of my vices in my life.

#31

In a McDonalds hamburger there is meat. There is also the bun.

(Karim Wassef) #32

sure… but cows don’t come wrapped in wheat… :smiley:

Cacao has what it has from the bean. I’m a carnivore mostly, but a few plants have medicinal benefits worth considering.

#33

@collaroygal I think you and @Karim_Wassef have cracked the primary question egg. Chocolate… cacao is a medicine rather than a food source that is easily replaceable from other sources in season?

Speaking to a new doctor, that I’m trying out from a list of low carb doctors, he explained that honey is not a food. But it can be used as a medicine. For example, for treating a cough. But eating honey daily in a smoothie, or in tea, or on toast is honey misuse and abuse.

Unfortunately cacao is linked into the neurohormonal neurophysiological pleasure response at the same time it is widely available in contemporary society. A trap set thanks to the leveraging of the profit motivated food market based system dangerously crossed with scientific knowledge of human physiology. Don’t get me on to talking about bliss points and their manipulation. That razor edge where food for profit is specifically manufactured and marketed due to its underlying and unmentioned addictiveness.

So, if chocolate is a medicine. Or, if cacao is a medicine, should it, eventually, in the evolution of a keto way of eating, be used as a medicine? That is, only dosed when needed. Like a pain killer or antibiotic. Should it be controlled like a drug of addiction?

(Karim Wassef) #34

cacao is naturally bitter. It has a balance of fiber, some carb and many beneficial chemicals.

Just because it’s medicinal… that doesn’t mean that it should be controlled. Otherwise, we’d have to control garlic, ginger, tumeric, etc… oh and coffee and tea

When it’s processed into chocolate, it can become a problem.

#35

The theory is right Carl. And one wishes it so. Ketogenic eating as a foundation makes what you describe achievable.

But in practice, in the “wild” world where knowledge is scant and cacao should also be, we witness the battle between the human psyche (the ego) and human physiology. Where human neurophysiology drives pleasure seeking, initially for good survival health in Palaeolithic times, and positive human evolutionary development. But now manipulated by we, the same ‘evolved’ humans to create a detrimental nutritional downslide and ill health.

Chocolate in its many guises is a bliss food. Carefully manufactured to drive addictive consumerism. Cacao bound to sugar and fat is a recipe for evil. If evil is understood to be a joyful loss of self control.

#36

True medicinal substances need a spectrum of control levels.

However, chocolate (due to the intrinsic sugar, and the powerful combination of fat, sugar and cacao), could be viewed as a drug of addiction. And it is the addictive concern that warrants the control.

:bulb: Maybe I’m blaming the cacao for what the sugar does?

(Karim Wassef) #37

sugar, especially when combined with fat… is the metabolic enemy.

(KCKO, KCFO) #38

Not my definition of evil. Evil are things that hurt me like gluten, in all its forms and certain nightshade plants that cause flushing and reddening of my skin, those give me joint pains as well and makes me stay on the depressed end of the emotional spectrum without consuming them on a regular basis. Given a choice between feeling depressed and calm and content, I’ll go with the latter.

Wine and my chocolate fat bombs are treats, I can go without them for long periods of time and do, I have chosen not to cut them out of my eating habits. I eat greens, meats, dairy, and nuts with some fat bombs and wine occasionally. In my third year of maintenance, I rarely go over 50 grams of carbs in a day. Works for me, YMMV.

edited to add:

When my allergies are really bad and my eyes itch, a couple of tablespoons of honey is the only thing that gives me relief, absolutely none of the allergy products do that for me. I have found keto/lchf keeps my allergies to such a low response level now, I have only had to do that twice in the last three years. One round does the trick. so I will buy into honey as a medicine.

The things that really push my bliss button are salty crunchy things. That is why switching to chunky pink salt has helped me with staying with this WOE and doing fasting when I want to do that.

(less is more, more or less) #39

You’re in good company with Dr. Shawn Baker.

Inspired by your question, I tried a new batch last night, wherein I ditched the cocoa powder:

.25 cups coconut oil
teaspoon vanilla extract
2 tablespoons of HWC
.5 cups pecan halves

It was… meh. How can I make it better?

Which lead me to dig deeper on cocoa butter. It’s higher melting point (compared with coconut butter) might make it a nice addition to my quiver, which lead me to this KF discussion, here:

Good stuff, @ctviggen, thanks for the nudge. Now to find it. All I see is the skin, hair or soap products, at least locally.

#40

Even acorns have to be “processed” before you can eat them. I’m not a religious fanatic when it comes to food so I would not call it cognitive dissonance. It’s OK to process some foods to some degree so let everyone choose their degree. I personally do not eat chocolate very often but I do take a few supplements and occasionally use things like MCT oil, Keto Creamer, protein powder and a few other things that fall into the same category. I even had SURGERY a few times with anesthesia.

(Karim Wassef) #41

Cooking meat over fire is a good kind of processing. :slight_smile:

(Bob M) #42

I listened to this podcast:

She’s not fond of oxalates. The problem is that they stay in you for a while. So, it becomes difficult to determine how long it takes to get rid of them. About the only thing I eat with them is chocolate (at least at those levels), but high percentage chocolate (85%+) has high oxalates.

(CharleyD) #43

Yes I believe if we were all driven by our own enlightened self-interest, we wouldn’t abuse cacao (I think I spelled it right this time) and no one would choose to mix it with sugar and fat to make chocolate. And make addicts of us with it. Unfortunately, the genie is out of the bottle on that one.

I will never recommend that cacao be controlled like opiates. The cost, personal and national, would not be worth it. Can you image how gleefully the government would prosecute a War on Cacao, like the War on Drugs?

In the end, I think yeah it ought to be used situationally, acutely, not chronically. That way it works when you need it to.

(Bob M) #44

So, I stopped eating my 85%+ chocolate to see what would happen and a pin in my left hip went away, to the point where I ran on asphalt for about 40 minutes on flat shoes (no cushioning), with no issues. I then restarted eating chocolate again, and now my pain is back. It’s still unclear to me whether it’s chocolate (and more specifically oxalates in the chocolate), but I’m going to test not eating chocolate again to see what happens. (Other than chocolate, I pretty much just eat meat, some dairy, some vegetables.)

#45

Cacao powder, organic or dutched, can also be used in savory applications. My personal favorite is adding a couple TBS into chili powder, garlic, herbs and applying it as a dry rub on brisket. There is a depth of flavor to experience there.

As for negative reactions upon consumption - that could be said for a lot of foods. Feed me shellfish, I’ll break out in hives. Feed me corn or hominy, it’ll darn near kill me. I have two close friends who are very allergic to chocolate. Just the tiniest bit gives them days of massive headaches, mood changes, and physical illness. Sometimes, you just have to experiment a bit to figure out what triggers negative reactions, and avoid those things.

(Bob M) #46

Totally true. Sadly, one thing that gives me immediate allergic reactions is hot/spicy food. I love it, but my body does not. I have it periodically, but that’s it. For me, it might have to be the same with chocolate. I’ll continue to test to see…

(Full Metal KETO AF) #47

:face_with_monocle:

Or maybe this!

:heart_eyes::smiling_face_with_three_hearts::smiling_face_with_three_hearts::heart::heart::slightly_smiling_face:

#48

Didn’t Arthur C Clarke write a short story about that? But referring to meat.