Carnivore ZC SurfTurf-tember! 30-day September Challenge. 2022

robintemplin · 2022-09-27 23:34:57 UTC

I’m gonna pout for a while. I just ate the most delicious pork bellies (air fried for 20 minutes at 400).
And I’ll be darned if I didn’t eat them all before taking a photo!

Naghite · 2022-09-28 02:27:06 UTC

Was just reading the thread. Seems to be some confusion as to the difference between lack of minerals in a diet, lack of energy in a diet, and ketone levels. Fat contains fat soluble vitamins, and energy once converted. Achieving enough vitamins is necessary, calories are needed in general, but not specific to a meal if you have enough on your body. Similarly ketone level is from fat, both on your body and in your diet. Burning the eaten fat to produce ketones may be beneficial overall, but it is not a sign of weight loss or IR reduction necessarily. It depends on intake and insulin levels.

Long chain fatty acids affect glucose production while medium chain do not, allowing your body to produce glucose independently of ketone production, so what type of fat makes a difference as well. As an example, I ate 3+ pounds of meat and had 7.7 blood sugars with 1.7 ketones as well. Obviously high BS and insulin, but I was still ketosis it seemed. That meal had over 200g of both protein and fat.

Perhaps some of you ketone chasers might want to add exogenous ketones to promote further ketone production. For those struggling to get high ketones, fasting for 3 days might be instructive.

A bit of a repeat, but make sure you are getting vitamins and minerals that are needed, including protein, then worry about macros and eating windows to meet your goals as a secondary protocol.

Naghite · 2022-09-28 02:27:50 UTC

Breakfast today

MeganNZ · 2022-09-28 06:48:08 UTC

I’m not chasing ketones. I’m chasing evidence this particular protocol is doing what it’s supposed to do to/inside my body. Increased ketones b/c I consume exogenous ones would be increased ketones b/c i have consumed exogenous ones If you watch the video Michael you’ll hear Amber O’Hearn talk about what happens when the ppl this protocol is designed to help fast. They feel like sh*t, terrible energy, no or extremely small increase in ketones.

VirginiaEdie · 2022-09-28 08:51:48 UTC

Where is the video linked?

MeganNZ · 2022-09-28 08:58:31 UTC

Paul posted it in zero carb info videos section

Why Some People Don't Improve On Carnivore: AND HOW TO FIX IT - YouTube

Karen18 · 2022-09-28 09:03:33 UTC

Haha I am sitting outside in the sunshine and saw your photo and thought it was the unmentionables … but then I blocked out the sun, zoomed in and … oh yes thats more like it lol egg looked like cream of the frozen variety, the piece of meat that is rectangular looked like the C word hahaha. I must admit I thought Yikes what is Michael up to here??? so I am a day behind again. Spent yesterday at home … works out cheaper that way usual brew and read time in garden in between showers:roll_eyes: can tell autumn is here as I have had to pop my lumber jacket on again. Cloudy day yesterday.

Went inside and did some more pottering, sorted through my drawers and got rid of some stuff I am not wearing … wish I could be a bit more ruthless though!

Brunch eggs small sausages (finished off the pack) and 2 burgers
Dinner fresh chicken wings that I coated in tandoori spice. Works out so much cheaper at £2.03 for 1.1kg opposed to 2.99 Lidl for 450g buffalo wings, which are smaller and like @JJFiddle commented not full wings … I understand what you are saying now lol. That’s why it always looks like I am eating so much!

I also had 2 hard boiled eggs, one while wings were cooking and 1 before bed, I very small tin tuna, some mussels and a couple of rollmop fillets (there were 4 in the tub this time so I saved 2 for today)

And this morning while reading Nd having my brew in the garden, in the sunshine I might add, this little fella (or miss) has been chirping and singing to me on and off for the last hour or so

Shinita · 2022-09-28 09:39:27 UTC

I so want a proper night’s sleep already… This time my idiot phone started to play music. It’s its thing but it never did it at night before (it was 7am but I went to bed late). I am a zombie today.

The weather started gloomy but it got sunny a bit later I went for my usual little pond walk. Only saw ducks and people, nothing interesting.

I plan to bring photos and talk about my last days but I can’t now. [Or that is what I thought.]
But I started to eat at 10:40am, just a bit, I never eat much this super early. It sounded a good idea. I am very easy to persuade to eat nowadays as I tend to eat little now. My carby Morning might have been useful as I ate much on that day. Okay, I write about it then. So it was a very off day (still far from high-carb as that is really extreme) because of supply issues and my general mood and lack of desires. My turkey was still frozen and I had no mood to prepare it with the red coat and everything, I didn’t want my tiny pork (raw and frozen but that can’t stop me) and I really had no options as I can’t live on eggs. But we had some mildly tempting (precious thing these days when I don’t have an appetite) nostalgic dishes I always just barely tasted so I just ate a significant amount of it (with eggs and dairy, I mean, mixed into them or vice versa. and I ate other eggs, obviously. I even had a little leftover meat but even my emergency fish supplies are low now). Unusual off day as I didn’t eat a bunch of sugars as usual. Well, it doesn’t worth it but whatever, I ate. The previous day was quite low-cal and even way below 120g protein. It almost never happens…
Next day (yesterday) the turkey thawed out and I was willing to play with it… It didn’t become so pretty but it was okay. About as much as without the coat but at least it added a tad fat… Spiciness would be nice but I don’t have chili now, only dried whole ones my seed grinder refused to grind into small pieces let alone powder. But it’s turkey so tasty either way
One piece is about 250g meat (and a little skin. it does have skin on it but only a bit) and it’s pretty substantial, who would have thought? Alvaro ate one easily, I ate one with difficulties… Oh how the tables turned… But it’s protein rich so actually one per day is enough for me, I add plenty of other stuff, after all. It was the last bite of chicken liver (finally. I got bored of it), some pork tongue (yum!) and 6 eggs now. But I ate too little fat and couldn’t even add some as I just run out of everything. So I had an extra night meal. I don’t like those BUT they changed for the better. They are just little things to patch up the holes in my daily eating. In the past, I got hungry, needed a full-blown meal and my non-existent control dropped more somehow, I became a different, worse person… I am sure I can thank carnivore in my general vicinity to change this in my life. Yay. If I get properly fatty pork I probably can eat just right during the day so these small midnight meals will become super rare.

I told Alvaro to bring back some pork chuck for me today as he checks the supermarket every day (he wants rice flour for his most frequently used dish, it’s cheapest there, they just run out of it quickly and don’t order again for weeks. and as we didn’t go to the city, he has serious supply problems too. he has almost no cheese! so I need to make him alternate desserts and cheeseless lunches now. it’s mildly challenging this week and I am not in the mood but I can do it. Fortunately he is happy with turkey for yesterday and today but my only idea for the next day robs me from my sour cream and some of my quark. it’s okay but he better brings some fatty meat for me as I NEED it. both the protein and the fat in it). He found pork in the pork fridge yesterday (but not the 2 cuts I wanted) so I am quite hopeful.

Pork chuck is near perfect. Its fattiness is wonderful, more protein than fat but far from lean! It’s very good for my protein and energy need, I can add some really fatty items but some leaner bites too and I still have good macros to keep me satiated, satisfied and my goals won’t be harmed either… And I like that cut. It’s more expensive that my other 2 favs but its fattiness is better, I don’t need to balance out things.

After all the time struggling to make my days leaner, I managed to go too lean (because I don’t have my usual very fatty items I love so much and happened to get turkey with almost no skin) and now I need to add a bit more fat. I can handle one lean day but I need my calories (fat), I can’t function with little food. Yesterday my midnight eating brought up my calories to a guesstimated 1440 kcal, very low for me. Sunday was ~1200… Monday ~2100 thanks to all the carbs I didn’t need but well… Not even a proper experiment as I probably ate as much because I only touched 120g protein in the end… Not because of the carbs. But I don’t do carby experiments by my own will, such days happen but I won’t hurry them for sure.
Now I trust I will have enough meat and enough appetite to eat enough from it, I really don’t want to go off, I feel better near to carnivore.

Oh! I weighed myself last morning (not very interesting, I have my pants to see if I go into the right direction. and I track so I see it anyway but that may be not that trustworthy). Before the loo and after a carby day because why not?
73kg. Not even 74 but 73. Wow. It’s a medium miracle - okay, maybe not, being near carnivore is just effective is I am stubborn enough and wait years… A small miracle then.
My weight is super stable and my scale too. I have been 75kg since 2 years. Maybe it could go up a wee bit after extreme days but this huge change never happened (when I was there to check, it got very boring to see 75kg every time so I rarely weighed myself but I still did here and there).
And today I was 73kg again so yep, it’s real.
I am not elated as I need my pants to fall off from me for that but it’s nice to see something FINALLY started. I was so very hopeful 2022 will be my year. In various ways. It wasn’t this far but the end of the year is still somewhat far away.

Did I say we have late winter weather? Seriously, a proper late October day is WAY warmer! (I am a sunlight and nature loving optimist with selective memories, that’s true… Some people think of October and see cold, rainy, gloomy days when one wants to be home below a blanket with a cup of hot drink… I see hiking in sunlit forests with red and yellow leaves everywhere. But we really have plenty of beautiful warmer later October days.)
Today we have sunlight but we had rain yesterday… And the day before. And forecast talks about 2 rainy days ahead…
I need to mow the lawn, grass and weed went crazy in the rain… But it’s always wet…

Shinita · 2022-09-28 09:55:05 UTC

Oh why I didn’t think about that? I love tandoori spice, I just stopped using it when I stopped eating vegetables galore… My meat rarely needs spices and somehow I usually let my eggs alone too. But chicken isn’t tasty enough alone - though I usually change my mind when I am hungry at Alvaro’s Mom who often make chicken for us. Almost always. And she learned one leg isn’t enough for me, the dear soul…
By the way we talked about her with Alvaro… She is our last relative we regularly meet (I totally consider her my relative and she considers me her daughter I am lucky with family, it’s just very tiny). She is younger than my Aunt, can walk but obesity, diabetes, smoking and other things are present… We are worrying about her. Her spirit is good, she probably will be fine for some more time but we want her to be around for very, very long while feeling as well as possible… But she changed her diet as much as she was willing… (We were SO helpless, she only listened to the doctor after her diabetes became known… It is something but not enough.)

I would buy deer or beef for that money… I pay a bit more than a quarter of it for my turkey on sale (cheap and delicious!), chicken legs are the same (if I don’t have turkey as an option… turkey always wins, hands down as it’s way tastier to me)… I wouldn’t pay even that for wings but I disliked chicken wings all my time, it’s like cat food to me except the thickest part. I always was into legs Turkey wings, they are substantial
But if I saw a good sale, I would try crispy spicy chicken wings now (I would probably fail the crispy part, I can’t seem to get the hang of it but I have read tips when I searched for a recipe for my red wings). I believe the hype has some base, I just never ate properly made wings… (I still would prefer thighs and drumsticks though, I am sure.)

Fangs · 2022-09-28 10:00:14 UTC

I absolutely agree!
My body literally craved big big fat intake so that is what I gave it and yea, I felt wonderful on it. I inhaled food with super high fat content effortlessly.

Then it changes some on us, but that timeline will be personal.
We hit a spot where are bodies are SO satisfied, SO more healed that we just get into that 'want to eat a bit less fat and we get into a ‘food coma’ kinda thing where we start to eat more lean CAUSE we can and still do well. Then I went from chicken thighs, with all its skin and chicken fat poured over the thighs and enjoyed, to I can’t even look at a chicken thigh now literally and don’t enjoy the taste like I did…and now I eat skinless boneless chicken breast and throw on the butter. But like you said before, butter while fab IS NOT the same as real meat fat too. So how we DO eat and how we change a bit can put the breaks on faster weight loss---------------

but then ya have like @MeghanRN, who is getting into tears thru it all and believe me I hit that level also TIL I said screw it, I have to let this go and just eat…let zc direct me…and it does…which is why I am losing my last lbs. SO slow but I do lose them cause it is when I eat way more fat, my eating flips in that direction and back to a lb. of bacon and big fat intake and my body responds by dropping 2 lbs. or so…yea ain’t alot but it means I can eat like myself, how I want all the time and never ever do I truly put a thought into my zc day other than what do I want. I HAD TO WALK out of the control of dieting out of my life cause I was going insane and zc got me off that.

and I got that others wanna experiment a bit, which is more like a forced to their timeline on eating vs. how I do it in I just eat what I want and let the body flip up my higher fat intake when it wants. (NOW this is just what individuals wanna do and how well they feel doing it. If I go back to alot of smaller meals per day and having to be sure they are this way or that way and all that crap I would start to hate this lifestyle ya no, but some can do it and be fine in that section again doing it, me, nope. Want no part of controlling meals again but back in my brain I can ‘decide to eat’ more fatty and just let the meals change me again that way but I realized I ain’t calculating out nothing anymore HAHA

good chat on it all. everyone has to do what is best for them as they change and it goes against what they ‘feel they need’ or can handle in tweaks etc. But never tweak too much or put too much crazy on it, yea I can do just that and it ruins me. So those types like me, best to just eat zc and let the body change me when it wants thru how I eat ya know.

Shinita · 2022-09-28 11:30:46 UTC

My experimenting has zero forcedness, just saying It’s fun and I only do it if my body is on board. I am bad with rules, I break them in a heartbeat If I follow them nicely especially longer term, it’s because I chose them very well. For example, I have a no peanut rule for September, okay it’s obvious on carnivore days but I have many near carnivore and even quite off days. I may do crazy things in small scale but NO peanuts (I broke this rule twice but 2 from 28 days? Wonderful. I broke my no coffee rule, like, 16 times and I was serious about that too, okay a little here and there is fine… but I need to train now so I should forget about it).
If I have a big rule I actually respect, it is

a very good rule, I NEED it, I win big time if I follow it
AND
I am ready to do it, no problem, no real temptation, no restriction feeling at all. Or just a weee bit but training is like this. We can’t follow our whims completely all the time, not even me with my probably interesting inner workings shaping my desires, hopefully for the better. It’s fine if it’s tiny and I don’t feel I miss out something.

Most people probably need to do it a tad more seriously and I would need to do that too if I wasn’t happy with very slow results… But almost anything to avoid feeling restricted, I am not good with that.

Others often do forceful experiments, that’s not my style but I can understand it to some extent (especially in very soft cases). Most carnivores do that with carnivore I think, at least in the beginning. They stick to it, (almost?) no matter what. I only do it if I don’t have conflicting desires or compulsions or thoughts. I am pretty amazed I behave as well as I do I must be a not too bad fit for carnivore-ish most of time… But I do it somewhat gradually (not the best word but I can’t say it better). I evolved A LOT. I change way more in a few months than I did on/off keto in years! (I blame the plant carbs. They change everything, even on keto. But meat helps big time too.)

So it’s understandable people try something for a while, maybe it helps then… We can’t necessarily see it before or after 1-2 days only (not like I would do anything not comfortable for 2 days if possible but I can imagine health problems where I would be willing to do more)… So a little push may be needed. It’s important to see when to stop though, many people tend to overdo things ignoring signs of the body, common sense… I saw some alarming cases. Some people are too “strong”.

But some people don’t even have a smart communicative body to guide them, at least while they aren’t healthy. It’s so harder for them. I don’t always know what my body wants either but I know a lot and as time passes, it gets clearer. But experiments are useful for that. I still do them out of curiosity most of the time… And to make things less boring…? It’s lovely to chill and eat my good usual food but I need some change here and there. Even I change and need different things.

Naghite · 2022-09-28 11:39:14 UTC

I did watch it when first linked. I suggested exogenous ketones because it has been shown that ketones in the body help you produce more than you would have without the extra dose, it gets you more into a ketogenic state. As Amber notes, it is all about signalling.

carnivoor2 · 2022-09-28 11:59:24 UTC

I think I’m well adapted to Carnivore, I’m also passing the 5y line next Februari.

Ketones are always very low, urine, blood, breath.
Its the adaptation, the body makes just enough ketones and glucose and ther is not much of the leftovers to measure.

I remember high ketones the first year, after that it was always low.

I notest changes in my health and feelings for yours after I started the (my) plan.
Not anymore, cound’t be more stable.
Not even travelers diarea, nothing, stable and healthy.

Fangs · 2022-09-28 12:32:46 UTC

SUPER CONGRATS to your Carniversary coming!!

what you said is right. Unless we zc’ers FORCE thru massive food intake that ‘ketones be measured in the blood’ to what level, even THEN we are being fooled.

it is not ‘new person off carbs’ and burning ketones and how that happens and chatted out on the boards forever as it is done…us ZC people will never be 'what the ‘in ketosis’ numbers will ever show thru ‘new into a ketogenic’ menu in that we burn them so different, they are NOW produced on demand as required, cause we gotta remember all, ketones are not just a one note, there are diff. kinds burning and ‘doing the body good’ but on a measure stick it is still kinda mute and useless ‘in a way’ for a longer term carnivore.

and you said it right there. STABLE!!! with a well being in life that ya ‘are there’, that ZC ZEN and off all dieting bs crazy, off what our personalities put against us cause we are all diff on that one in this lifestyle and where we are in life.

I am you. I am into year 5 and feel fab and I must always watch me reading too much others who are newer and are trying, cause damn it, I wanna join in but thru the yrs I learned it doesn’t suit me to run off on a tangent and after all the ketone info I read in the body and how it changes longer you ‘are ketogenic’ it showed me even that means almost nothing to me anymore cause there is 0 science against a long term, very long term ketogenic menu and how all that science and interaction and diff. ketone levels ‘burn’ thru us. That is why us carnivores don’t give a flying furball about ketones HAHA

thanks Vic for great insight! Voice of carnivore eating and you are now grounding my thoughts again. I appreciate that post of yours!! cause I am ‘that person’ that just lives the lifestyle and have to remember others wanna experiment and this and that and I have to keep in mind I ain’t there anymore I so gel with ya Vic!

yea me too. I am that type easily. but for me ZC gave me the simplest rules of my life. eat meat and great fat and don’t look back. Don’t do nothing extra, just go with the flow and I have another side to me, I commit ya know when I feel it all works for me and I ‘try’ then to not look back and do what works for me.

I don’t think it is smart communication with their bodies, I think it is about commitment to change enough and ‘follow those damn rules’ to gain insight and enough body function change to ‘allow one to see it’ but everyone wants instant gratification…yea I had to work past that too LOL

I feel that post S!

Shinita · 2022-09-28 14:24:27 UTC

The more I read about ketones, the more glad I am that I can’t measure them…
I always said I don’t care about ketosis, I care about being healthy and feeling right (and eating the right amount of food). If I eat wrong, I feel it quickly (subtly too, thankfully), it’s enough for me. I track to see what I need to give my body for it not to bother me at midnight, what meat is best for me fattiness wise etc. It’s no good if I eat low-fat and end up with undereating (usually only until midnight) but too much fat is problematic too. Now I have a good idea what to do, of course my days still tend to be different but that’s okay.

Alvaro brought home some pork chuck, 1kg, so tiny! And it has a big bone. But it will help me out in the next 2 days (2.5? I better bring some food with me to the city), I still have a piece of turkey.

We had turkey for lunch again, I couldn’t finish mine (that’s for dinner). But I could eat some more eggs and quark. Bye-bye pork tongue, you were lovely, only the lean tip (Alvaro’s part) remained.

Tomorrow is fried pork chuck day! And sponge cake baking day, I went through 12 in 2 days again… It’s my most important egg dish now, the others are boring to me at the moment. But when they aren’t, I still eat my sponge cakes, impossible to get bored of them and they suit so many things. I even had my turkey and tongue with some let alone my quark. It’s totally my bread except I never was the type who had bread with everything (that was Alvaro and even he could unlearn that)… But this is something superior, fluffy and egg tasting!

Fangs · 2022-09-28 14:31:31 UTC

yea being ‘in ketosis’ has benefits but 'where are we on it and how long has the body been ‘in true ketogenic burn only?’ is massive questions and assumptions cause no real science can support what ‘us carnivores’ do long term, meaning 8 yrs -10 yrs and into 20 yrs?
it just isn’t there BUT we know one thing, as one stays off plant matter our ketones will never register and are used SO diff in the body as the total fuel source that in the end, to put onself back ‘thru forced’ reasons could or could not be benefical to that person???

many many open ended questions for those longer term carnis for sure

Fangs · 2022-09-28 14:38:06 UTC

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OK HAD to hit store for hubby bread and my 17 yr old DD swears there is NO food in the house HAHA

my mind went bigger fat intake.

7 ribeye steaks…2 pks
4 pks bacon with biggest fat content I could hit thru the selection and cheapest price store brand
2 packs chicken thighs on sale

got 4 bigger type chicken thighs in oven right now!!

OH BOY THIS IS gonna be an experience!! I was never a thigh fan. Only 1 thing made me love them and eat them, all the fat in the pan and skin and more, I COULD Cajun spice them, but life said now that aint an option as I had to drop spices as I moved forward thru the years. But I KNOW I am not a dark meat fan on fowl, so with the ‘off taste’ I do get natural more weirdo ‘not great’ taste to me personally, the Cajun spice would cover and I inhaled them.

So now? Cooked plain? hmmm…I will see where I go on it cause who knows, MY taste could NOW thru the yrs mean I can inhale naked condiment thighs? but I never tried trying it…

and here we go…wee…

my bit is see if I love them natural or it is a no go and will be hmmm…something I just gotta check out for me.

Azi · 2022-09-28 17:14:46 UTC

Back to beef with flanken ribs they are way more fatty than my lamb so I don’t need as much butter although I did eat about double on my plate it wasn’t enough for two ribs…so prob close to three table spoons.

I’m also not chasing ketones because they could be just the number of ketones available to burn not what’s being burnt…for me seeing that I have ketones shows my bodies making them…

Shinita · 2022-09-28 21:07:25 UTC

My foggy photos are boring as I thought, the garden probably would have produced better ones, I planned such ones but “later” as I had wet socks but then the fog disappeared… Next time.
My food photo isn’t very good either but informative. Yesterday’s dinner, I ate some eggs more and not much else and that was my day…? I don’t remember so well but something like that.
Nice big turkey, not some pathetic tiny chicken wing! But I couldn’t make it really pretty. And liver and tongue. My sponge cake breads are so tiny, I forgot them in the oven a bit but it’s fine, they just lose some more water and volume.
The lil glass contains a really soft-boiled egg, I like that state and it’s a few seconds to drink it… Nice gateway food when I don’t have enough appetite to start eating solids.
I actually finished the quark in 2 days. I start to have enough of it.

Shinita · 2022-09-29 11:17:56 UTC

I still can be stubbornly hungry at midnight. Sigh.
It seems that as I thought turkey isn’t so great for satiation (maybe if I do everything else right? but I don’t do that. I started to eat early this time…) and my decision making is still poor if it’s midnight and I am hungry even after I ate all my ready to eat carni food. (Not having a momentum of several carnivore-ish days and overdoing milk during the day doesn’t help… But the main problem was the lack of ready to eat food. How people are functioning without visiting the city and bigger town supermarkets regularly? I don’t know, they must be very different from me. It’s not just about money, some items just don’t exist here. Like proper cheese, not like I need that one much. But it can help me out sometimes. Not the cheese itself but it brings a lot of eggs I wouldn’t want to eat alone. HOW a little town functions without some proper cheese?! I can’t comprehend that.)
I forgot I need to have some tempting roasted or fried meat in my freezer all the time… I planned to fry my pork last evening but it somehow didn’t happen, I did other things and thought, oh, I was enough in the kitchen for one day, I will do it next day when I will actually need it and it will be fresh… I have PLENTY of turkey protein, more than what I need for a day!
Well it wasn’t enough, apparently. I am not into eggs now (I do eat some but less than normal and way less than what I would need with only some turkey), no cheese, little sour cream, I just couldn’t pair up the pound of turkey with a generous amount of fatty stuff.
It’s so clear in retrospect…

But now I fry some pork and shouldn’t have problems today or tomorrow. And I go shopping afterwards.

We had rain and it’s a lovely sunny day, I went for a walk and wet my socks again, only my winter boots are water resistant but they are super warm and furry, I won’t wear it on a day when I regret wearing a summer t-shirt instead of a sleeveless one.