Carnivore ZC SurfTurf-tember! 30-day September Challenge. 2022

#383

I am lazy and won’t calculate but a bit more fat than protein. Weight wise it’s 1.125 but calorie wise, 72% fat calories.

And keto helped with overeating too but I often feel my food obsession waning on/close to carnivore and it’s something I never had before. Okay, if I was super busy with something, in extreme cases I even forgot about eating (very rarely, it’s not my thing), it’s not that, it’s something more serious. Good, I need it. I just want some appetite sometimes, I have days when I don’t have any and that can be tough and feels odd. I have phases, I would like some more normal carnivore(-ish). It’s fine to have phases but not with so huge contrasts that sometimes I wanna eat up all the fatty pork I have and sometimes I barely can eat enough in 5 meals. I have wonderful chill days but problematic ones as well.

I wrote some long text in my mind for this thread but I won’t form the sentences again, no one needs that. I will do it in a concise (for me) way later when I bring my @Karen18 inspired wings! I would like some light for it but it’s a massively foggy day.

#384

Welcome!

80% fat sounds a tad much for me too… But hard to tell, honestly as my attitude is “minimizing fat” in the last 11-12 years. As I came from VERY high-fat high-carb. My 120-180g fat? (On my good days, of course I can’t stay that low all the time, it’s me.) Sooo adorable, I miss fat! Not so much on carnivore where my food is more satiating but still… Sigh.
It’s probably just mental at this point though I like some very fatty items and I need to stay away from them (or minimize them).

Erm. Sorry, I try not to write about myself despite all of the thoughts…

Why do you think 80/20 is for you? How long do you do carnivore? In the beginning I couldn’t do my usual 65-70%, I got nauseous… It changed quickly but I ADORE fat and ate high-fat all my life. Some other people may be way more comfortable at 60% or 50% or whatever, it depends on our energy need too as we can’t just eat a ton of protein, we have an upper limit. It’s easier and cheaper to add fat anyway, at least it’s true for many, me included.
But 80% fat isn’t soooo much, I mean it’s normal food, maybe a bit more generously added fat here and there and it’s already that much. It sounds high but it’s not like some lean stuff fried in a ton of fat, we have fatty meats, fatty yolks, fatty dairy if one can handle it… I could eat sticks of butter if I could afford the fat and expenses (it’s so ridiculously expensive here and I love the way, way cheaper lard very much too. when I added back meat, I snacked on lard a bit but I don’t do that anymore. but snacking on butter, mmmm… ;)).
Many people do 80%, it’s not so extreme. I often think about people who has some huge energy need so they need 90 or 95% fat… They must exists somewhere, right? I am lazy to calculate things now. Well THAT must be something extraordinary… I did 88% on my fat fast day, it was super fatty… And very low-cal so it probably was way easier to eat the fat…

I gladly chat about fat any time :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

I have read from others (the carnivores. I am not one. just a sympathizer or something. I try to do my best to stay very close to carnivore most of the time and I came a long way but need more time. I don’t think I NEED full carnivore but I very much want to try it out when I will be ready as @Fangs is right, we can’t KNOW what happens then! maybe I get more energy!) and you better be patient. The stories aren’t about quick fat-loss here. But there are so much else to gain! It’s individual, of course and carnivore isn’t for everyone but I for one didn’t experience benefits from my old keto while carnivore immediately gave me several. In DAYS. And just staying close is so much better than mere keto. I was lucky, others need way more time to feel okay.

Good luck!

Oh you poor soul, I better behave then… I have a tendency to get carried away but if you lurked here, you know that very much.

(Mary) #385

Yes, I do know that :joy:. It’s OK - the world would be a very boring place if everyone lurked like I do.

I have been patient. It took me 8 months to lose my first pound :disappointed: on keto. Another 25 followed more normally over the next 8 months but pretty much nothing since. (I’m 5’7" and 200#). I’ve cut everything out of my diet except meat, eggs, hwc and high fat Greek yogurt. And I’m resisting getting rid of the dairy…

#386

you had me laughing here! sounds like you definitely know your eggs and their taste factors. not being an egg fan anymore I mostly put them on the back burner. seems they are suiting you very well and you are enjoying!

-------------------OK GUYS ON THIS PROTEIN FAT RATIO CRAP
I am confused HAHA
5 yrs carnivore and like 2 yrs VLC and never ONCE did a fat protein ratio type calc in my entire career :skull:

I got a few 50/50 answers then a 60/40 kinda and a 90/10 maybe and funny thing is I still don’t get it. I tell ya, I am not a food calc. person, never was.

but hmm, Azi gave me alot of info that is more backed up in the why and how some are controlling their intakes. thanks

then VE gave me that simpler calc which puts it more at 70/30 thru that calc. on one sausage. even if I eat 1/2 the pack the ratio is still 70/30 right-----believe me guys I have no idea :slight_smile:

1 sausage = 60 Cals, 4.5 grams fat, 4 grams protein

4.5g x 9 cals = 40.5 Cal from fat (68%)
4g x 4 cals = 16 Cal from protein (27%)
works simple with a packaged item showing me the above numbers, with a 10 oz NY Strip steak? how does one calc but to go to Azi’s info I think.

OK OK I have to think on it but I also know I ain’t changing much thru some calcs. I was curious and will think about things but you guys gave me stuff to consider. Appreciate it guys!!!

---------SO TODAY is super simple again. I have 0 defrosted except a lb. of burger. OK get a sirloin steak out for 2nd meal and just make myself a 1/2 lb. or 3/4 lb. burger 'which I know is 85/15 meat from the package :sunny: and just eat.

reading along, enjoying the thread.

Keep it zc simple guys and we got it made and will rock into Oct in good form.

(Linda ) #387

It’s funny I didn’t used to like butter much before unless it was on something carby…lately I can be smothering meat in a thick layer of butter and eat a chunk with every bite…but if you were to make hollindaise sauce for dipping or if you make an omelet or scrambled egg sioban said 7 eggs with 6 tablespoons of butter but you could use any fat like bacon fat. It will soak up the butter… steak and butter gal has an egg pudding im thinking of trying to Change water for melted butter…you could make a alfredo sauce type sauce…but if you can use cream and not stall you go for it…

@Countdown2020 welcome to our group, j im absolutely loving how all the fat makes me feel my skin no longer has a crepy look or feel to it… yeah i won’t lie when I just dove head first into deep end into fat for a few days it def was back to running to the bathroom but that seems to be passing unless I jump up to even more fat…you can ease into it and slowly take it up…if you get hungry before three hours you know it’s not enough fat…if your tired or grumpy it’s not enough fat… they say if your waking up in the night it’s not enough fat…(but ketosis does that to me)
Amber has always always promoted high fat but when I tried it last I made the mistake of keeping protein way too high.
@Fangs meat is aprox 3 to 4 ounces cooked then slathered with butter lol. But by the end of the day that new york strip is done…and your munching on part of the next one lol…

(Linda ) #388

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(Megan) #389

Yea, zero issue eating butter with carby stuff pre-carni but with meat or eggs? Seriously nauseating. The mayo I made was ok, and I’ll try the hollandaise recipe that was posted on KetoAF. Heavy cream hasn’t caused a weight loss stall so far and I drink 1-1.5 cups a day. Even if it’s slowing weight loss I don’t mind, I must have some quality of life when it comes to food so I’m going to keep using it in my coffee. But sounds like there are other possible problems with dairy, other than weight loss effects and sensitivity type issues? Anyone able to fill me in on what they are?

(Megan) #390

Thought I’d explain why this is stressing me out - the same kind of day ruining effect not seeing weight loss on the scales is for some people.

For one, where the hell are my ketones? I just never made any on keto and my 1st 4 months on carni (almost always 0.2 on the blood meter). So I switch to 2-3 grams of fat per 1 gram of protein, limit protein to 30 grams per meal, spread my meals out throughout the day. Admittedly I’ve only been doing this protocol for 7 days. At some point yesterday before my 1st meal I registered 0.6 and I was so excited! Then later on in the day, about 3 hours after eating some beef cheek, I registered 0.0. WTF?

The past 3 nights I’ve been super thirsty throughout the night (still waking every hour or so damnit). I know thirst is a sign of ketosis (as well as other things) and despite my decision not to test I just did, because maybe maybe maybe I’ll see something that will make me happy and encourage me? Blood glucose (which I checked 3 times - see below) on waking 4.9-5.0 mmol/L (88-90 mg/dL), blood ketones 0.1. So here I am, beginning my day, feeling confused and discouraged and pissed off.

Another issue is this new ketone/blood glucose meter I bought (CareSens). When 1 did my waking up blood glucose 3 days ago the reading was 6.2 (about 112 mg/dL). I thought “hmm, that can’t be right?” So I immediately re-tested. 5.4 (about 96 mg/dL). I immediately re-tested again and got 6.3. Then once more and got 5.7. What the hell? Faulty unit I now have to try to send back and get a refund? (which is damn stressful for someone who doesn’t leave the house much!) Or is it normal for meters to give such wide variations? In which case how the hell do I know what my blood glucose is?

When sh*t like this has me at the point of tears, which is very not like me, I don’t need it in my life!!

(Edith) #391

I added a little more detail on how percentage is calculated on my previous post, hopefully that will clear things up for you.

The percentage will stay the same even if you eat 1/2 package or whole package, but of course, the calories will change.

The math that showed 90:10 was incorrect. It was showing the ratio of protein to fat which is not really the same thing. You need to compare the “thing” to the whole. For example a fourth of a pie is 25 percent of the pie. (1 piece / 4 pieces) x 100% = 25%. (Sorry, math/science nerd here. :nerd_face:)

#392

Not necessarily but there is a correlation indeed (I suppose it’s more true for people who actually eat little fat, not much like I always did). Fat makes my meals bigger and longer lasting - but I still can’t have a high fat/protein ratio as I will overeat then. But fattier meat helps to have proper sized meals when carnivore easy satiation kicks in… We need to find the balance and the right items. Lots of fat sources just don’t satiate me well and some protein sources are the same.

I remember when I actually wanted to raise fat and lower protein… I only focused on fat and ate a ton of it… My protein shot up too. I would need to be careful with my items if I wanted higher fat. My fat/protein ratio is pretty stubborn.

It’s interesting to read how other people do things… I would love to try higher fat but I can’t afford the calories. But my time will come eventually :wink:

Your photo… I am a bit envious now. We start to run out of butter and we both love to use it every day now… I decided I let Alvaro have the rest as he needs it for some of his fav food… I still take itsy-bitsy slices as I need it too! :wink: Butter is amazing and I don’t even have lard now.

Well no, butter and not very fatty meat is win. Eggs with butter, very basic, it can be some sauce, scrambled eggs, egg pudding or egg milk… But don’t think I wouldn’t gladly eat a boiled egg with a slice of butter.
Butter alone, a tiny bliss! :slight_smile:

I want butter now :frowning:

(Megan) #393

Hey Mary, welcome! Lurk away, or chat away, it’s great to have you here. Some people up their fat slowly, others jump in boots and all. 1.4-1.6g protein / kg ideal weight as an initial target is your daily protein, divide it up into 30gram max per meal, then just add as much fat as you can handle until you reach 2-3 grams of fat per gram of protein. If you decide to try it keep us posted. The thinking behind the protocol is it targets insulin resistance which some people still have, despite months/years of being carni. It can help with weight loss, especially if you hit a long stall, and lack of energy. Other things too but my brain isn’t awake enough to remember them right now.

Lots of folks can just kick back and eat whatever and however on carni and do fantastic! Others need to tweek for various reasons. I’d much prefer to be one of the former, and chances are one day I will be, but for now it seems I need to at least try this tweek b/c I’m dragging myself around my life due to very little energy.

(Edith) #394

Maybe it was a bad test strip? They do have expiration dates. You might want to check.

If not, I heard somewhere, don’t remember where, that fat really slows down the digestive process. So, while it doesn’t cause an insulin spike, it can take longer for the insulin to completely drop back down since processing what you ate takes longer. That could be why your ketones were still low three hours after eating.

As related to the dawn phenomenon, we secrete cortisol before we wake up so we have blood sugar circulating in our blood to help us get the day started. As we use the blood sugar released from our liver, we use that energy instead of burning fat. That causes the decrease in ketones. Your blood sugar was 90 mg/dL, but maybe when you tested you hadn’t actually gotten back into fat burning mode to create the ketones? Maybe give yourself an hour or two after waking before testing ketones?

(Linda ) #395

If its messing with your head don’t do it…mine on carnivore was non existent too on keto I could get into ketosis but come in and out…you might be still to low on fat but you’ll start seeing results it didn’t take long for pains to dissappear for skin to feel better rashes dissapear…
You can monitor just your blood Glucose you should slowly see the numbers improving…you don’t need to constantly measure I do it but I’m getting pretty good at guessing how much 4 cooked ounces is but I have noticed if it’s beef I only really want two meals if it’s pork ill take the third…
My numbers on glucose are still up a but if need be I’ll cut protein to 3 ounces cooked per meal…I actually for the first time feel hope on carnivote I’ feel really good.

(Megan) #396

I’m new to thinking about blood glucose levels and what’s okay and what’s not so okay. I’ve read folks getting theirs down quite low over time, is 90 mg/dL for someone just starting okay? I’ve never had online access to my blood test results until now and I’m surprised and really pleased my HbA1C and blood glucose has been normal the past 6 years. I’ve always assumed, being overweight and getting older, I’m already pre-diabetic but seems I’m not! :crazy_face:

#397

3 times as much fat in grams as protein, omg… Isn’t that super low protein or super high calorie? Okay for some people and definitely not for others… Or is it just temporarily?

It is something hardcore too, 2:1 is often tricky enough for the ones who need it.

And now I want some fatty experiment for fun… But it won’t happen in the near future, I started to lose and started to really like my leaner options anyway.
But I am really curious what would happen. Could I go really high percentage without nausea? What would my macros do?

I never saw duck eggs on sale but the chicken ones do what you wrote, smaller ones cost less (unless they are fancier or you buy them at a very different place that dares to sell them for much). Very logical, people usually aren’t very stupid when it’s about this simple food related things.

@Fangs, as time passes I just love your enthusiastic “rants” more and more :smiley: You are so right IMO :slight_smile:

That was my day after I inevitably overdid them on my meatless carnivore day (I run out of it easily in the beginning and I was stubborn) and got egg aversion… :smiley: But of course, I couldn’t stop eating them, not even when added plants as I still had no meat…
Well, it changed. I still tend to have several eggs a day but not all the time and I often go below 6 eggs, no problem. Odd but I am not into my eggs since… Very long. I want meat now. Not only, nope, that’s not me but mostly. With some eggs here and there. I can drink many eggs but egg dishes… I don’t want them anymore. Maybe it will come back.
But maybe one day 6 eggs will be an eggy day for me too. Probably not but who knows?

Sigh, I read back and reacted. You will get my not-buffalo wings next time along with info about my last days. And some foggy photos is any of them is cute enough.
I start to have problems with handling this thread. I should write less, that should help. But I have so many thoughts… I didn’t wrote down a bunch of them!
(I am bubblier today, because due to my darker last days, part of my personality can’t stand it for long, I always bounce back, at least on the surface. And bubbliness means even more thoughts, more enthusiasm, more words.)

And while I have read back and wrote, you produced some more comments… I just give up now. I need a break.

(Linda ) #398

Any thing under 100 is in normal but I’d like to get mine least down 70s low 80s… great you got good results…looking forward to mine in December

(Megan) #399

It’s 30 grams of protein per meal, and people need 3-5 meals a day to meet their protein needs on this protocol (1.4-1.6g protein / kg ideal weight). As for it being temporary, not necessarily. Some people live on this protocol and feel fantastic, others use it to do things like break a weight loss stall or fix insulin resistance, then slowly increase their protein per meal until they discover how much is too much for their particular body.

(Linda ) #400

Some ppl are eating 8 ounces./227G of butter per day and feel absolutely amazing dropping pounds… some are not there yet with their fat…
But what is shocking is so many many ppl mostly woman are now coming out saying pmsf completely messed their hormones up, woman lost menstrual cycles, lost their hair, were always hungry, Started getting rashes breaking out in pimples getting food sensitive , some with headaches…and what was missing in their diet was fat. I’m in three groups all full of ppl with the same story ppl wanting to try 80/20 and they are seeing results some that have been carnivore for 4 years with no weight loss…
You can cut your fat if you want no one has to do it this way and infact if eating all you can eat til your full is working for anyone there prob no need to change anything…
Steak and butter gal has always promoted eating sticks of butter 4 ounces a stick and she looks totally amazing…

I think even Fangs would agree when she was early into carnivore she ate ribeyes, bacon by the lbs her alfredo sauce. really fatty meat like fatty hamburger the fattiest you could buy she added butter to her steak…
Somewhere along the way ppl took out what was part of the program which is alot of fat…
Even Kelly hogan can now see how it’s changed over the years…she said the message years ago was eat fatty meat everyone was munching on ribeyes fatty ground beef …Even after 13 years she can see the difference in her skin, in the whites of her eyes …she dropped 9lbs not that she needed that, but she eating way more calories and still losing weight. She is not .getting the drawn in face look she has great skin colour and she said she feels really great, so for now she can’t see any reason to change it back… She is adding in more Seafood sardines, oysters muscles with her pork belly… to get magnesium… she said she eating at least 200g fat a day…but you can’t add all the extra fat without pulling back on protein…I tried that and failed lol

(Linda ) #401

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#402

So it’s super high calorie… I surely wouldn’t like to eat 360+ g fat for my 120+ g protein (or maybe I could go lower with a super high percentage of fat? I just know that 200-300g fat doesn’t lower my protein intake below 120g. but I never tried to eat 3 times as much as protein as that is totally against my instincts, taste, everything. but I have such items I like, I just can’t imagine not balancing things out. but I will try). I dare to say I wouldn’t be able to… Maybe I would do low protein then as I did on fat fast? But that’s not sustainable…

Okay, it’s not for me, clearly but I still can’t wrap my head around it even if it’s for others. 2:1 fat:protein, that’s pretty normal, a therapeutic woe is like that and I have read about that a lot in its own thread when it was alive. But 3:1, that’s quite unusual.

I personally prefer being around 1.0 for fat/protein but I can do anything between (and sometimes beyond) 0.5 and 2.0. But only temporarily and with effort, I automatically do my 1.0. But it works if I do everything right (I rarely did but now I got better) so of course I don’t put much effort into changing it.

Oh. My. God. I can’t comprehend that. But at least I have heard about something I never did. 80% fat, sure but way beyond, it’s very new and interesting to me.

PMSF always sounded like starving to me personally… My body wants lots of protein, lots of fat. In balance though I really don’t need to stick to 1:1. It’s just what suits my needs and taste and comes easiest. I eat eggs, I prefer meat in that ratio (but there is a wriggle room there)… Hard to do a very different ratio even if today I managed it.

I always eat fatty enough to feel right, I can’t control these things, I must give my body what it wants. It took a lot of time to go lean enough but now I can do it. And I don’t need to do it all the time. I like somewhat similar days but my carnivore (or anything close to it) is crazy. One day I eat twice as much as the other day, fat varies a lot… But as long as it will work, I won’t complain.

I never ever lost fat without eating little so I will keep aiming that (anyway, it’s wasteful and costly to eat too much. I tried eating much and very much, well not tried but happened, it never did any good on any woe). Of course, I need to feel okay and perfectly satiated nearly all day long, it’s basic to me. It wasn’t easy to reach this point but I think I started to do it right.
But I will continue to do experiments, it’s fun and I may learn something.

Hmmm… I am sure I could get bored of even butter…

200g fat isn’t much, I can do that (maybe not every day on carnivore but sounds doable…?). With 120+ g protein.