Could you be experiencing oxalate dumping? @FrankoBear and I went through a lot of oxalate dumping a few years ago. It can be very debilitating.
Carnivore ZC SurfTurf-tember! 30-day September Challenge. 2022
Azi
(Linda )
#303
If you are insulin resistant high fat is what dr c had me do. Short ribs flanken ribs are naturally about thereā¦
Adding fat could be just dipping your meat into melted butter before you take a biteā¦ amot of ppl are browning butter and whipping it for ontop of their meat or pouring it into candy mounds and eating itā¦
Funny enough when I was high fat keto thatās when i lost all my weight i ate a ton of bacon lolā¦and felt great.
When I went high protein dr c wanted bacon only as a side dish thats when my hair fell outā¦ its come back in but itās about 4 or 6 inches shorter without having it cutā¦
Iām probably still not eating enough fat so now if Iāve eaten my meat and get hungry Iām digging out my meat fat from the fridge salting it and eating thatā¦
We will see where it goes letās see if I keep improvingā¦
I think whatās gets lost along the way is when we drop carbs we still need an energy source and yes we can use protein in the form of glucogennissis but fat and carbs are the bodies preference ā¦So while we def need a min amount of protein. To rebuild our bodies the left overs can not be stored as protein and if your body is grabbing your body fat for hormones where is your energy coming from? Unless your feeding it lots of yummy fatā¦ You can only pull so much fat from the body per dayā¦ and if your using that to control leptin, grelin, cholesterol, cortisol, thyroid estrogen, testosterone, your demanding your body make glucose use the protein thats ok if your cells will take it ā¦my body only wanted fat and my cells said no to the glucose and so its left running around in the blood my a1c started climbing my blood sugar started rising uric acid started climbingā¦
So just taking my blood glucose reading can tell me alotā¦with dropping my meals upping my fat my blood glucose has pretty much been under 100 every morning Iām hoping it keeps droppingā¦my ketones are up so body is back to burning fatā¦
Even funnier when Dr CWas explaining it to me way back then I nodded but now after correcting it myself this time I understand it betterā¦
My body was prob gaining because Iād stopped burning fat and was eating so much protein it was being turned into sugar then stored as fat.
But as Micheal and Fangs say we all different finding what works is keyā¦eating smaller meals fills me up for a few hours if im hungry and a drink wonāt fix it then Iāll have another meal once my proteins done ill still eat if Iām hungry but only fatā¦
Naghite
(Michael)
#304
Good post. Certainly too much protein raises fasting glucose partially from slow digestion and release of sugar from GNG as a slow drip, but as ketogenesis is down regulated from protein, it can turn you into a glucose consumer as well. I am attempting to get the best of both worlds currently, we will see how it goes over the next month. On that note, barely over a pound for breakfast today. Large Buffalo heart, salmon, beef thymus and small piece of liver, one more chicken liver and some beef bone marrow.
Karen18
(Karen)
#305
Easy day ā¦ chillax in the garden with a brew and good book, another one as I finished two at the weekend. Found one written by a Japanese autistic boy, 13yrs old when he wrote the book using a computer and alphabet grid. Very good for anyone wanting to understand what goes on in their heads ā¦ and I am still learning 37 years on! Its called The Reason I Jump by Naoki Higashida. Half way through already!
Brunch was 3 rashers bacon and 2 duck eggs fried, they stuck to the pan so I half scrambled them.
Dinner 2.5 pork chops slow cooked in slow cooker.
Followed by a small chunk of cheese, some pickled mussels, a deli sausage and hard boiled egg ā¦ bit of a mix.
Off to bed now, still on leave tomorrow not back to work till Thursday.
Shinita
#306
Meanwhile I donāt know how on Earth can I keep my fat down if I donāt like most lean stuffā¦
Itās good I have some cute, low but not super low energy need. Especially with my 2+ hour walks now but I totally forgot about my workout today because of my forest walkā¦
But I only had 2 good days because I had leaner meat but I start to run out and fatty meat is easier to get and more tempting as well. What I have now as leaner options are inferior to fattier meat but I enjoyed eating so much in my life, I donāt need it all the time now. And I do have my joy, itās just not really from my meat at the moment (I should stop eating butter alreadyā¦ but I have not much meat now and I need to eat my sponge cakes somehow and they are perfect with butter. and it was in my pĆ¢tĆ© as well).
Whatever, I will figure it out, I do have many good days. I just easily mess them up with 1-2 wild ones, I need to have those less often.
So, today I even managed TMAD! Sweet, I feel more normal now 
I had more turkey, pĆ¢tĆ©, sponge cakes (I will use a dash of salt in them next time, I definitely feel I need more salt than what I have lately. I put salted butter on my sponge cakes and had to salt it extra!)ā¦ I had about 120-130g protein in the last 2 days, my safe minimum then, it was was higher in the previous days. Okay, I donāt seem to need tracking for ensuring this during the day, it happens automatically. I run out of food to eat at dinner and stopped without satiation but I reached my protein and it arrived later, itās nice information to know but I kind of felt it anyway, good. I am curious and like to see my numbers but I hate when I NEED tracking to avoid night eating. But my natural feedback seem to work well
I just need to choose my items well then. I need more leaner stuff. Leaner means it has less fat than protein, not really my style but I have pork butts as my major lean item, I will buy hake if I find it, last time I didnātā¦ And what else is there? Not much. It will be tricky. And of course I long for adding all kinds of items with a quite high fat/protein ratio. I canāt keep myself in deprivation and I donāt do it but my amounts are super tiny. I am very fine with leaner and fattier days but I would need even leaner days then and keeping it below 65% is a big challenge already. And my high-cal, very high-fat days (still not as fatty as I would like but I feel satisfied if it makes sense to you, it does to me. I have this very fatty idea as something desirable in my mind but actually eating it isnāt that important as I imagine, something like that) will keep happening, they are a fixed part of my life and surely are important for my body and mind for some reason especially if I want to lose fat. But they are that anyway. And I want to avoid eating unnecessarily much fat. I already wrote that I see I have that as I only eat until my minimum protein is up, not every day but quite often. Itās possible I need all the fat too but sometimes it goes way higher for a while and my lower days feel just as okay and itās not like I eat too little on those. With my fatty food, itās not a concern.
And my lean experiments! I want to see what happens if I eat leaner. I just canāt eat much leaner. But I want to do what I can. And figure out how much fat is actually needed and what kind worksā¦
But I am pleased with today, I just canāt do this for long without some focus and proper items. Tomorrow I plan to do some meat shopping if I can. You never know with these small local supermarketsā¦ And my shopping gives me a moderate but not small 2 hour walk again Through the wildlife park forest, twice! I bring the camera and shot shrooms and naked ladies (the flower, I still couldnāt get over the name :D) if I see them, I spot some today so I probably will!
Oh I keep forgetting, quark! My saviour, that is a lean stuff too and acts as a dessert as well, itās amazing, good for many things! I just shouldnāt do the (here) typical spread with it as that is fatty and uses butterā¦ I try to buy some tomorrow, chances are very good for that, meat is the tricky thing but the supermarket is bound to have SOMETHING I can eatā¦ But it probably wonāt be lean. At least I will have something nice. I run out of lard anyway.
Still far from satiated and itās 11:30pm nowā¦ But itās not bad enough to mess up my good day, I am on a mission against night eating anyway. I already ate my protein and I only can eat protein sourcesā¦
It is training and it does well. But I want back my pork and love towards pork alreadyā¦ I ate almost a pound of meat today but a bit more works better. Maybe even the fat in my pork works better than added fatā¦
I think or at least write too much again. But I need supplies. Tempting stuff. Even if I canāt imagine what it could be but I should like pork again if I get hungry and prepare it fresh. At least enough to eat it but some appetite definitely would be welcomed.
MeganNZ
(Megan)
#307
Thanks for all your awesome replies guys. I made a doctors appt for tomorrow so will get the results in a few days of all the blood tests I want him to order. Hoping he agrees to tick all the boxes on the forms I want ticked.
Iām losing weight, I enjoy the food and love not feeling hungry/deprived all the time (aka dieting), and the arthritis pain in my knees has significantly decreased. So, some big plusses.
Energy levels, muscle strength, endurance all way down. Had way more energy pre keto then carni. Sleep terrible. I need to fix these things b/c this is no way to live. Happy to give it time, just need to decide on which approach to eating Iāll choose. The eat whatever the heck I want to from my list of foods (especially meat) whenever Iām hungry, or go 80/20.
I wonāt tell my doc Iām eating carni, Iāll just say no sugar, no processed foods, no grains. Iāll let him assume Iām eating loads of veg 
MeganNZ
(Megan)
#308
I just tore Butcher Jack a new one via email. This is a local butcher I did an online $252.82 meat order with a few days ago. I went out front about an hour ago to take the rubbish bag up to the kerb and saw 2 bags of meat sitting on my front porch. Not sealed in a box with something to keep the meat cool or anything, just a bunch of bagged up raw meat in 2 large open plastic bags being crawled all over by a lot of blowflies. Itās 18 degrees celsius at the moment (64.4 F) at 5.30pm and it was a good couple of degrees higher earlier on today. I have no idea when the meat arrived. No knock on the door, no text, no email, no nothing. It was obviously hand delivered b/c no courier would allow fresh meat to be packaged so appallingly.
I washed all the sealed bags before opening them, bagged the meat in meal sized portions and got it into the freezer asap. The beef cheeks are a bit stinky but Iāve never bought beef cheeks before so maybe they are meant to be?
MeganNZ
(Megan)
#309
Youāve got me really curious about my blood glucose levels so today I bought another meter that does both ketones and glucose, plus a pack of 50 blood sugar strips. The one I bought a few months ago also measures both so I could have saved some $ and just bought some glucose strips for that meter, but Iām curious to see if the ketone readings are the same, jic I bought a dud and Iām really in ketosis, despite having absolutely no body experience of it! rofl
Not chasing ketones per se but being in ketosis can make folks feel pretty dang good. What have you noticed now youāre registering numbers like 1.2, compared to how you felt registering numbers like 0.2?
Apart from in the morning before consuming any calories, are you testing at any other times of the day. If so, when?
Shinita
#310
I never ever heard about something like thisā¦ 
Itāsā¦ More appaling and doesnāt make no sense whatsoever, they canāt gain anything from being like this, in the contraryā¦
Meanwhile I hope I can get some meat today but in the worst case, I can have a nice eggy day with leftover pĆ¢tĆ© and turkey! And I have 320g raw pork in my freezer, thatās all I have.
Btw I ate after midnight as I was hungryā¦ TMAD is still very nearly impossible for me to do. And I didnāt think I ate little during the day though itās different when I use more added fat than usual, I think.
Oh well, I keep experimenting. It would be nice to have a fatty day tooā¦ I miss my fatty meats.
Fangs
#311
HOLY COW on that one truly Megan. Thank heavens you found it before it was way too late. That is just so unacceptable on a fresh meat delivery?? wowza. smart ya ripped him a new one cause another thing is the company has to know what the delivery person truly is doing to ruin their bizā¦yikes. That post tore a hole in my carnivore brain almost 
-----------------So eating doing well. I made the mini meatloaf. a lb.
but family had leftover mash taters and GRAVY in fridge and I thought, OK gonna try againā¦I love gravy, always did and always will but it hates my guts.
So I limited it. I put about 3, eh, stretching into 4 tablespoons of gravy on my mini meatloaf meat. I wanted to just dump it all on LOL but I KNEW the consequences and wanted to ātest meā and I did OK. Yea OK----til this morningā¦ughā¦I got mushy guts. Normal olā amt of gravy on food made me run to bathroom and I thought, just a ltitle would be okā¦nope. Found out again it is a no go. This morning I didnāt enjoy my usual fast in and out bathroom time 
it was more ick then usual and of course TMI for sure here, but this is ME experimenting on a tad back and again, I knowā¦less means no dash to bathroom, but it still means gut issues to come later.
OK enough on that. I tried. I failed. I know again!! yikes
steak was stellar delish
So today is NO gravy at all ever, already down the drain and taters in the garbage just to clean out the fridge from the leftovers from the carby eatersā¦eat up leftover mini meatloaf and I am focusing on chicken and pork today. Got me a few slices pork loin to finish up and will fry up a monster chick breast later too. I have some leftover alfredo but going down the drain. No more sauces in gut for a bit. Smart move to me on my part 
ZC Strong all!
Keep it simple. Basic.
Shinita
#313
YAY! I got pork shoulders (the only viable option from the pork fridge. itās so cute, they have a small pork fridge next to a meat counter where one can buy fowl. and thatās it, they donāt have other meat. some mirelite fish but nothing I would want to buy) and turkey wingā¦ Well the most meaty part, close to the body? That part I bought 5.
And 500g quark
Another 2.5 hour walk today, my legs arenāt used to that and itās not even a long walk! I got rusty. At least I always have elevation around here, thatās useful. My stamina should get better.
We had lunch around 4, I ate soup with turkey meat, sponge cakes with pĆ¢tĆ© and some more eggs. Cute lunch, not big but not too small, it was just enough and now I feel nice.
I will fry pork for dinner and get some lard in the process. I have quark to balance out the fattiness now - but I will make fatty experiments too I remember that I used to get satiated even if I did problematic things like low-fat or low-protein. I just needed a TON of the other macros. And fat fasts were quite effective, I only got very satiated with 1000 kcal on those days. I wonder what I ate, I canāt even imagine eating something else than protein sources in more than very tiny amountsā¦ I remember I squeezed a yolk into my day (some raw vegetable too, it was old me!) but what elseā¦? I made fat bombs but itās still not enoughā¦ Oh well. I actually donāt want to go that far. I just eat eggs and pork shoulder and sour cream and whatever I want and like and we will see. I probably need OMAD, I still remember my 1000g pork shoulder days. Why fattier meat satiates me less (for total weight of course, not calories) I have no idea, it makes no sense, it should be the opposite. Temptation isnāt enough, learner pork satiates me so well that I just canāt eat very much of it. I never noticed fat makes me hungry, it just does nothing to my hunger when itās extra or my protein isnāt okay enough. Of course I need fat to get satiated but protein is the key. And whenever I add 100 or 200g fat extra to my already protein rich day (usually raising my protein intake in the process but not nearly as much as fat), my satiation stays the same. Thatās why I am careful with fat. And because I LOVE it and have decades long very high-fat eating habits, not this adorable minimal amount I eat nowadays most of the time.
But I think too much again. I am just wondering lazily, actually, I feel chill as I am perfectly satiated and a bit sleepy after my mealā¦
Having meat gives me a nice safe feeling tooā¦ My supplies really went low. The webshop still didnāt answer but we go to the city next week, no matter what. Alvaro needs cheese, the cats cat food (itās very expensive nearby)ā¦ I need more meat, obviously, I want pork butts and hake fish and other things. But right now I am fine. And I hope I can eat much pork again, it makes things so much simpler and easier and better.
Naghite
(Michael)
#314
Beef checks should not be smelly, although of course that is a bit vague. I pressure cook checks for hour myself.
Azi
(Linda )
#315
Yeah I wanted to see if I go out so far Iām not seeing that.if your blood glucose up ketones go down.
What I am noticing is Iām alot more thirsty Iām not as hungry. And peeing way more. But with ketosis Iām back to being awake more at night.
When I first changed to higher fat of course it affected bowel movements again but that was to be expected.
This morning I woke up to higher blood readings 1!7 and ketones of 1.1
Iāve not long had my first meal 4 .3 ounces cold mutton about 1.5 ounces of butter and I just took it again after reading your post.
Shinita
#316
Higher fat only affects my calories, my body is quite stubbornā¦
Apropos higher fat, I fried some pork shoulders but didnāt eat any yet. I was satiated at dinnertime but I could eat my little leftover so I am hope I am done for today. I will track tomorrow. I donāt want to get ideas if my actual numbers are low.
Azi
(Linda )
#317
But your still basing everything on calories in calories outā¦Iām not, hormones are what controls hunger satiety and alot of important bodily functions. Those are whats important to meā¦ my calories have gone way up
From adding a ton of fat but im not gaining weight so proving eating a ton of fat is not making me fatā¦
Iām now in ketosis where as I was not before even dr blood tests have shown none to only trace amountsā¦
ā¦As we get older hormone lvls start dropping off . Which is also prob alot to do with weight gainā¦so much of the bodies functions are run on fat :cholesterol estrogen, cortisolā thyroid, leptin, ghrelin, ā¦Im not an athlete so im not repairing anywhere near the body cells of somone like Karen or Frankobear or Micheal so yeah I need a bit more since im getting older and canāt process protein as well but I donāt need anywhere as much as I was eatingā¦ some ppl can get away with it and thatās great each of us needs their own path.
I felt great other than gaining weight but my blood glucose proved to me I wasnt doing so greatā¦ I was pushing up towards pre diabetic numbers not healthy at allā¦ im not chasing ketone numbers. im not going down that rabbit hole but what I will do is let my hunger quide me now if Iām not hungry I wonāt force food but Iāll still aim to meet baic protein requirements then itās just fatā¦
Karen18
(Karen)
#318
Another do not a lot dayā¦didnt venture out at all. I even resisted going to The Company Shop ā¦ Sian went yesterday and said there would be lots of half price stuff today as the dates would be up ā¦ I looked in my freezer and thought nope not a lot of room in there so didnāt go.
Instead I finished the latest book with a brew in garden before deadheading and weeding and spraying the drive with weedkiller. So not exactly done nothing, but near as damn it lol
Brunch was some deli sausage, yuk, followed by buffalo chicken wings which were tasty
Dinner was pork ribs slow cooked in slow cooker then in oven to get the top a bit crispy. Added chilli flakes and salt before putting in oven.
I was greedy cos I could have got away with one of the racks. Followed it with bit of cheese, yuk, and some mussels and cockles.
Shinita
#319
@Karen18: I may be boring here but I never ever ever ever will get bored of your wonderful wing photos! Itās a joy to see them every time 
One day I want to make such good looking onesā¦ With turkey wings.
I donāt gain fat even if I add a lot of fat and a bunch of sugar (for a while, at least, I canāt test it anymore for long), itās no problem. LOSING fat is the problem.
And of course I base not everything but my fat-loss and overeating related things on CICO, CICO is what happens to everyone but for people like me or my SO, itās even a simple one, all we need to focus on our eaten calories (Alvaro merely skips his 3rd meal and he slims down quickly. I canāt do that. He eats more or drops his activity and he gains quickly. Thankfully itās not me either :D). All our fat-losing and gaining experience showed that. Carbs donāt seem to matter but we both eat close to what is ideal for us (at least I try to) so not much should/can be changed regarding that anyway. And protein is always in its own good range. So I focus on calories/fat, itās almost the same (I actually consider my guesstimated calorie balance, even I have more active days) - but itās not like I have any particular control. I easily overeat, I canāt do anything against it (except not buying pork shouldersā¦ ooops). So it doesnāt even really matter what I think as I eat according to my bodyās wishes, mostly.
I canāt focus on hormones as itās my bodyās job and I am not even knowledgeable about themā¦ I have no idea what mine do. They areā¦ Working, I suppose. There is zero feedback. I just function. I guess thatās actually a feedback? So I go for other things like satiation and that is controlled by my protein intake, mostly but of course itās not that simple, timing and chosen items matter too as I can eat 1kg chicken and stay hungry. Itās so crazyā¦ It is protein and lots of fat, my body should see it and be pleased with it. But nope.
I tracked. I had a cute day that I canāt handle with this activity level so I got hungry and I had pork shoulderā¦ Barely tasted it but it was allegedly 650 kcalā¦ Yep, itās dangerous stuff. And it wasnāt enough but I was modest and ate eggs and quark with sour cream. So my protein is over 150g again but what can I do? I had some proper meat and thatās nice Nice maintenance day, 3MAD between about 3:45pm and 10pm. With proper and quite fatty meat I probably will have OMAD/TMAD daysā¦? We will see, I have about no control over that number (unless I really want to but that typically involves much carbs out of necessity. I only did that twice, both was long ago) and never know if I will eat once of 6 times the next day (okay, thatās rare, 4-5 is more common).
I ate up my leftovers, now I hopefully will have some simple time, I focus on meat and eggs and quark! I think itās best to start with meat - and if not, I still didnāt explore that direction so itās not a bad idea
By the way, I really hate tracking, always disliked it as itās not a way to live (yeah, I am not a good enough hedonist, I am aware) but itās easier now that I eat simpler and I am super curious and have some questions regarding macros and satiation and whatnot. Still, it feels pointless until I can simplify things more.
So I wonāt track in the weekend if I can pull it off. Itās very hard to stop tracking so I totally should do just like that. I will eat too much fat anyway but not epically so quite pointless to track. I need good days to figure out what works (leaner protein, yes but what if I have fattier meat like now?). I know about a lot of stuff that doesnāt work, not helping.
I better get scarce, I am so good at not thinking much about it, I already know what I want to try outā¦ I just start to think when writing here. I should just write about my meat. The fried pork shoulders (never fried it before I suppose) is a bit chewy, I did it quickly, I normally add water and cook my pork firstā¦ But itās still okay. The rest is cut into 4 little pieces (around 220g ones), I will roast it tomorrow and eat it SLOWLY. Not all of it on the same day like I did in the pastā¦ ONE meaty (shoulder wise, at least) meal per day only.
I so donāt like rules like this but I hate overeating massively and pork shoulders is dangerous when itās in the same room as me. And itās not even one of my fav cuts. I just easily eat it galore.
Maybe I should give up losing fat, it wonāt happen anyway (probably. just because I have naive nearly infinite optimism I have a realistic part too) BUT I still donāt want wasting food and money though overeating. It isnāt so healthy either.
And I managed to fit into my thin jeans with a butterfly embroidery today (fortunately it looks okay and I like animals though caterpillars and spiders more. oh, I saw a HUGE hairy caterpillar today, black and brown with long hairs, my fav kind!!!). So I got a tad thinner but itās only a tiny positive thing as I got thicker first, just a little but it matters for this pair of pants. Still, yay. I can postpone clothes buying again. I hate it with a passion, I do almost anything to avoid it. It would be a good motivation, sadly motivation never helped me with fat-loss, I donāt work that way.
I go away and only bring cute pics and enthusiasm for a while. Non-edible shrooms (just one lil pic) are like flowers and okay, right? They look STRANGE! But I have flower too. Naked ladies
Azi
(Linda )
#320
Hmmm I still might below on fatā¦
I just joined amber and sibian face book group
Here is Amberās sample plate vs mineā¦
Meat is right fat maybe not lol
