Carnivore ZC SurfTurf-tember! 30-day September Challenge. 2022

#282

I am definitely not against that, in the contrary, they would remind me that I actually wanted to run again… It’s hard to restart, I never liked to run, I just consider it important. Just a tiny bit every day, to the hilltop and back! It’s such a little distance!

Both the cats and I enjoyed the soup (they just got the fowl bones with little meat and not so little skin on them, the liquid is precious to me). It is a rich soup this time. Finally I am very much satiated :slight_smile: Only had a tiny lunch with Alvaro, soup with a bigger turkey neck and eggy coffee. For some reason I felt great desire towards coffee today. 8/19 coffee days in September. I will try to improve the ratio later but as my more recent coffee days include only 1-2 coffees now, I am pleased. I was only against the compulsive procrastinating coffee drinking starting in the morning (it usually lasted until evening or bed time). Now I don’t drink coffee before eating and forget about it afterwards. Good.
Alvaro drinks a coffee once every season. And he just now finished the mouflon dish. I ate up my share in some hours 2 days ago. About 400g tasty mutton isn’t particularly much…

And it seems I misheard the snow, it must have been near but not in the country. Of course the high mountains have it already, that’s not a bit news. But there is hail, that’s not an autumn thing either but a summer one…

(Megan) #283

Hi Linda, thanks for checking in :purple_heart:

Struggling physically and I don’t know what to make of it. The past few weeks my body is extremely fatigued. Walking up the stairs in my house is hard and I’m just dragging myself about the house. No strength in my muscles and feeling like I have zero fuel in the tank.

My sleep has gotten a lot worse. I have no problem falling asleep, but I am waking every hour, usually to find myself in a lot of muscle pain. I get up to pee and I’m soooo stiff and sore and turning over in bed hurts a lot. I stopped taking a low dose of quetiapine however many weeks ago (atypical antipsychotic prescribed to help me stay asleep better) and have been waking a lot more than usual which I half expected, but now I’m also in a lot of pain at night. No wonder I feel like crap given how I’m sleeping. I’ve ordered a herbal supplement combo for sleep which should arrive today and am hoping it helps - Ashwagandha, Valerian, Passionflower and Lavender Oil.

Also 2 times this past week I have started shaking uncontrollably in one of my many wakings up. Jaw chattering, body shivering violently, limbs moving all over the place. No temperature. Is scaring the heck out of me. Never experienced it before. Lasts about 15 minutes then stops.

The near constant brain zaps are finally starting to settle a bit tho which is such a relief! If they are settling it could well mean they will stop completely.

I don’t track but I really don’t think I am eating too few calories but I’m going to up them just in case. I have listened to the recent interview Kelly Hogan did with Amber O’Hearn and I’m wondering if there is something in it for me.

(1) Why Some People Don't Improve On Carnivore: AND HOW TO FIX IT - YouTube

Amber talks about people who have very low energy, but it seems these people are also not losing weight? I’m still losing weight, averages out to be 700 grams a week over the past 4 months on carnivore, tho it has slowed a little the past month. Not that I’m worried about it, I’m very happy with my progress. She also talked about these people having very low ketone readings, which has been me my entire time on keto then carnivore. 0.4 on my blood ketone meter has been my highest, it’s usually 0.2 when I occasionally measure. I had some bug or something a month or so ago and ate very very little for 3 full days. Only drank water and had one very small meat meal a day and on day 3, after not having eaten for 22 hours my blood reading was 0.3.

Soooo, maybe I’m one of the people who have to limit how much protein they are eating and break it up into 3-4 meals a day and add a lot of fat until my body figures out fat is our new energy source, not glucose. Which feels weird to say given I only eat animal foods! But, from what she said, eating biggish boluses of protein in some people nudges insulin up over time and once you get to a certain level your body you go from a fat burning state back to glucose burning state.

I dunno, what do people who have watched the interview think?

I hate butter, the thought of eating it makes me want to puke. So I went to the supermarket yesterday and bought double cream brie, double cream blue cheese and some more cream cheese - all very high fat to protein. I’ll have to make sure I count the protein grams in these cheeses and make my meat portion even smaller tho. Thankfully I love shoulder pork which is crazy fatty. Plus a very thick layer of fat between the meat and the skin, which is my fav part! Slow fry until everything caramelizes.

It’s possible the bug, or whatever I had a month or so ago, is still lingering and making my exhaustion, sleep and pain a lot worse. In the meantime I’m going to eat 4 meals a day at a 80/20 ratio, keeping my protein to 30 grams per meal, and see how it goes. Eating this way will also increase my calorie intake which may also help.

Thanks for listening.

#284

Good luck! It’s problematic when the fat/protein ratio need to be somewhat forcefully changed, but it’s good that dairy works for you and you like fatty pork, shoulders is pretty fatty, yep, there are WAY fattier pork options, of course… I can’t even afford shoulders, I am the opposite, I probably need to eat the leanest meat I can. Not sure as my eating is crazy lately…

Let’s hope we all will figure out what to do and soon at that.

(Edith) #285

I used to fall for that with things that were listed as sugar-free. Sugar-free doesn’t mean no added sweetness, it just means the added sweetness comes from artificial sweetener instead of real sugar.

I think companies add soy or other fillers to processed meat, such as sausage, to make people think it is healthier.

(Edith) #286

Are you taking in enough salt? When my sodium level gets too low, I get meandering muscle aches, cramps, headaches, and my blood pressure drops too low. A lot of carnivores say they don’t need extra salt, but I was never able to give it up during my carnivore trial.

Robb Wolf on the Healthy Rebellion Podcast frequently sites low sodium as a reason for poor sleep. He feels when sodium drops too low, it causes a cortisol response which wakes us up.

(Megan) #287

Yea, definitely. I really like salt on my meat, I salt my coffee and I make salty meat and bone broth. Still get cramp in my lower legs if I forget to take my magnesium.

(Michael) #288

I highly doubt that spreading protein out will help due to the time it takes to digest protein anyway - of course you can always try it. Removing protein and replacing with fat (as suggested) may help lower your insulin and up your energy and is probably a safer solution for energy while also keeping your insulin and glucose low. It may even raise your ketone levels (if you care). From your other fast, it seems that you may be insulin resistant? In terms of feeling pain and fatigue, I doubt either would help (again, try anyway right?), but I would certainly be concerned. Have you had blood work done? Are you eating beef liver or other offal at all?

(Karen) #289

It is a very besutiful coastline. I am original from South East Coast, Sandwich and before that Deal so I must admit I feel quite a draw to the coast and Seaview x

(Karen) #290

Home again ahhhh!

Just eaten cold meats today plus s hard boiled egg, jar of mussels, tub of rollmops and yep a bit of cheese this evening as my daughter popped it in my bag after making a ham and cheese thingy for my son to eat on the journey home.

It was nice… and I have been so good but hey ho I am not going to fret, it is what it is. Bought some pork ribs on way home for the slow cooker from the lovely farm shop service station, the pork was lovely last time xx

(Linda ) #291

Yeah try upping your fat see how you feel…
From my research:
When i read blake Donaldsons book strong medicine his patients were told to eat half pound meat per meal fat 3:1…8 0unces raw becomes 6 ounces cooked. Roughly 42 ,grams of protein and it had to have added 2 ounces of fat…
Steffesan who did the first all meat diet trial in an American hospital wrote this.
" A conclusion of our experiment which the medical profession seemingly find difficult to assimilate, but which at the same time is one of our clearest results, is that a normal meat diet is not a high protein diet. We averaged about a pound and a third of lean per day and half a pound of fat (this is about like eating a two pound broiled sirloin with the fat such a steak usually has on it). That seems like eating mostly lean; but grow technical and you find, in energy units, that we were really getting three-quarters of our calories from the fat. That is what the scientists meant when they said at the end of our diet had proved to be not so very high in protein."

So 3/4 of their diet was fat…

Interestingly enough they tried to make steffassan experiment controversial by saying it wasn’t a all meat diet because it was only 20 percent lean the rest animal fat.

"Last week Dr. Louis Harry Newburgh of the University of Michigan’s Medical College, no fanatic, gave out a statement. He related an experiment he had conducted: a laboratory worker, fed a diet of 32% lean meat for a period of six months, developed nephritis (kidney in flammation). Concluded Dr. Newburgh: "The Stefansson test was not an all-meat diet, since only 20% was muscle fibre, or lean meat. The rest was animal fat. This Arctic diet had no more lean meat or protein than an ordinary diet. "

(Linda ) #292

Made a big difference to me im not chasing high ketones but going from 0.2 to now low is 1.2.

The idea is processing protein at 30grams per meal

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(Michael) #293

Interesting. I went the other way and also substantially increased my ketones (2MEOD) even when eating ridiculously large meals (like pounds at a time of meat). Of course, when looking for what works for you, whatever works is the right answer.

(Megan) #294

Hi Michael, is 4.5 months on carnivore not long enough to develop at least a decent degree of insulin sensitivity? Mind you, if Amber O’Hearn is correct, my eat all the dang meat I want to eat version of carni may be keeping me somewhat insulin resistant. If this is true I’m crazy disappointed. The thing I like most about this woe is the absence of tracking, measuring, portion size, timing meals etc. Doubt changing what and when I eat will help the pain either, but, according to Amber, it is has helped folks experience a lot more energy. I keep putting off going to the doctor. Partly b/c leaving the house is hard, partly b/c I am expecting a huge wtf from him when I tell him what I’m eating (which I’ll have to now I’m needing to go b/c something is not right inside my body), and partly b/c I’m expecting some of my blood test results to look bad while my body is still transitioning to this woe, which may make him wtf even more. But yea, I need to go and get fully checked out. As for organ meat, beef and lamb liver once a week or so.

Amber is saying for every gram of protein, eat 2 of fat. I’m 6 foot 3 and 60 years old so, using various calculations, I should be eating about 130 grams a day. So about 33 grams of protein and 66 grams of fat, 4 times a day. That’s an absolutely ridiculous amount of creamy cheese per meal, now I’ve started measuring it out and putting it on my plate. It’s high fat only 50% of the grams of fat per 100 grams as butter. I doubt it’s a great fat source health wise and cost wise it’s not going to be sustainable. I find ghee pretty disgusting too. Haven’t tried raw beef fat yet but am going ewww at the thought lol. Any other fat sources to get my ratios right? The couple of cuts of pork I eat won’t need to be tinkered with, but I’d like to make sure I’m eating some ruminant meat too, and a bit of liver. I’d very happily eat my very small piece of rump steak followed by a small amount of greek yoghurt with a lot of heavy cream in it, tho I doubt chugging heavy cream is a great option either :crazy_face:

But I guess as an experiment, to see if the 80/20 ratio changes anything, eating whatever I can to up my fat is ok, initially?

(Megan) #295

hmm carni mayo might help out. 1 egg yolk, 25 grams unsweetened yoghurt, 50 grams melted butter.

#296

you may have combo things hitting you.
possible ill again. chills and things aren’t carnivore normal adaption kinda ‘for most’

and I have to say you are still very new. Cause we are SO different ya know in our physical bodies that it could be taking you longer to adjust.

My personal story. Doing wonderful on zc. Full of energy and at month 7-8 I got so exhausted I could barely move. I couldn’t keep my eyes open. I dragged thru the day only because I made me move and I didn’t move unless I had to move LOL I thought for sure something major was wrong. I was stiffy like in the body, sleep either great or hardly nothing some nights and I was so off it was crazy. No idea where it came from. I hit up the zc forums and they all said just keep eating you meats as you want. Live thru it. I did but I was one step from quitting into the almost 3rd week of just massive fatigue and went to bed one night and woke up ‘absolutely perfect’ the next morning.

I truly have no idea what hit me at all. Only advice I got from all zc veterans was just keep eating what interested me, nap and rest and take an advil if ya are super stiff kinda thing and live with it til it changes. Took what seemed to me to be a very long time to change but it did.

Alot of us zc people have very strange issues starting this plan and they mostly hit us sometime within the first year so…this could be you.

I wouldn’t track up or do this or that too much ya know. Just eat well. Eat what you want, as much as you need. But nap/rest all you can. Just take care of you thru this issue. Now that is what I did, just held zc and waited. took a while too darn it :slight_smile: but I got thru something I never expected to hit me around mon. 7/8. to this day, no idea what went down inside me but it is gone now thank goodness, lol.

now of course if ‘something got ya’ like a backslide to an illness and stuff it wouldn’t be a carnivore thing ya know.

Wishing you the best of luck!

#297

Keeping today very simple
got a NY Strip steak
defrosting hamburger, probably just burgers in a pan. mini meatloaf like too much work to make :wink:

ZC on strong guys!!

(Michael) #298

My insulin resistance did not improve after a year of ad libidum meat consumption. For me, I eat way too much protein, which is why I am 2meod to try and improve IR. I too am disappointed, but not too surprised.

#299

I would mostly eat fatty meat (and my eggs… I would focus on yolks, fortunately I have someone to fed many whites to) and only add a small amount of butter, cream, sour cream, lard, whatever I like.
It’s easy for me as I mostly eat pork and it’s ridiculously easy for me to buy meat (and cuts I love at that!) with 75%, 85%, 95% fat… I probably would up my processed meat intake, my favs are usually very fatty but I actually want it to be lower… Fresh meat just sounds more right. So I would focus on very fatty cuts.
It’s hard with leaner cuts especially if you don’t want to add very much of extra fat.
I looked up rump steak, it’s not lean but not very fatty either.

(I am very glad I don’t need a specific ratio. I try to experiment with different ones and it’s very hard to go against my natural one where most of my fav dishes are. Sometimes I wonder about people who need to eat 90-95% fat to avoid protein toxicity… They diet must be “interesting”. Even I wouldn’t want to try that.)

(Judy Thompson) #300

Howdy. Today will be day 3 and final day on the road to Virginia.
@MeganNZ hope you feel better soon. At Fangs said about you still being pretty new at 4.5 months - it seems that even weight loss can take as long as 3 years carnivore. That is what I’m expecting having lost the 1st 40 or so. But I continually look better, belt is cinched another notch this week, and although I need to lose another 40-45 I’m at least feeling normal. I do not track. First 2 months were fat adaption, horrible times, couldn’t eat much meat and it tasted weird but I got through it. I notice layers of cleansing taking place, sometimes going through issues again that were ancient history years ago and then back to normal. I think of it as a geological dig, aspects of old issues that resurface, play out and then vanish. Through it all I just rest, drink water and wait. I’m now 9 months Carnivore.
I hope you feel better soon and that you find the strength to ride this out. Meanwhile, I always love a good diagnosis so I can go home and figure out how to solve it on my own :rofl:

Yesterday 2 hard boiled eggs in the room, then a truck stop hot dog about 4. Ribs at night. Finito.

#301

I had a lovely 2.5 hour walk in the forest dressed in my hot summer outfit in 15C… I wasn’t like this a year ago, I wonder if it’s because of my cold showers :smiley: (I stopped taking fully cold ones lately.)
I have found some pretty shrooms, one is a mystery to me so I will make some research…

I just had my not very photogenic or interesting or stellar lunch, soup (not bad at all but I strongly prefer pork and ruminants) with turkey and mouflon, sponge cakes with butter and pâté, more eggs and the other half tub of my kefir (it’s only a 330g tub, I easily could eat way more in one sitting… that’s why I prefer fattier stuff, more substantial. but kefir has its lovely sourness and I couldn’t find Greek yogurt and I am in my yogurt phase or something, I buy a tub almost every month). I am nicely satiated now. I already felt more normal before my lunch, I was sure it was a proper hunger that leads to some proper sized meal. And it did despite the complete lack of proper meat. Turkey necks just aren’t so great… I prefer wings but the LIDL we visited last time had few options and necks were on sale and they are bony so good for soups… But I think it’s time to make my meat soups from boneless non-fowl meat. I wonder what I should add to make that flavorful enough but we will see.
And I had some egg milks. And coffee. Just a bit around my lunch.