Carnivore vs Mediterranean keto

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #1

I see many people in this forum are “Carnivore”.

But in general, keto does not need to be Carnivore. The main definition of keto is a low amount of carbs/sugars.

Of course, everything in nutrition are 1-to-1 experiments (impossible to control big populations), but it seems a relative consensus that:

  • Too much meat is “bad”, due to mTOR issues (even though other epidemiological studies suggest that meat for non-obese, healthy, sportive people is not bad)
  • Mediterranean diet is considered to be good

I am doing something like a “Mediterranean keto” diet (it is not called this way, but it looks like it):

  • 200g of vegetables per meal, twice per day
  • 150g of fish/meat/eggs per meal, twice per day
  • Lots of olive oil
  • 3 servings of a medically controlled protein powder

I see that most of the plates people show pictures of are basically “full meat”, with little vegetables (or even fish).

Even many people argue that vegetables are “bad”, with antinutrients/bad-absorption/… I am really surprised about this, since in my life, I have seen people arguing they do not like the taste of vegetables, but nobody arguing they are “bad”.

Also, using the “precautionary principle”, one should tend to prefer a “Med keto” rather than a “carnivore keto”, due to the issues highlighted above.

Is there a particular reason for such a strong preference for carnivore, as opposed to a “Mediterranean keto”?

#2

Start here: Zero Carb Information Videos

That first link shows tons of info about our lifestyle.

Then this narrows it down some…In it is info which helps show differences such as: All a keto diet guarantees is that your body is running off ketones. It is not necessarily as nutrient rich as a carnivore diet. And it can still include a number of inflammatory foods…I add in it is from plant matter that can give negative effects to the body. Read all about it:

Get thru all that then you can understand better. Carnivores in our group will show only meat on the plates LOL we don’t eat plants :slight_smile:

We are not on ‘a Keto Plan’ and we don’t just eat a little plants or anything like that…Carnivore/Zero Carb is ALL IN no plants at all. We are animal kingdom only which is actually very very different than a ketogenic type meal plan.

Ok threw alot of info at ya :slight_smile: Enjoy the reads!

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #3

I do not know at all, but in relation to “In my opinion, there’s no better diet in the world for inflammatory, gut and autoimmune related issues than the carnivore diet.” from the web given above, could it be that vegetables in the US are low quality? I am really surprised that somebody would reject vegetables due to “inflammatory, gut and autoimmune related issues”, it seems almost logically contradictory to me.

I have never met anyone in Barcelona that might even have the slightest suspicion that “inflammatory, gut and autoimmune related issues” are related to vegetables. Vegetables might be not tasty to some, but I have never met anyone relating vegetables to any kind of medical condition.

#4

Here is a great read…take time and digest what you do read here cause every person’s physical body will react and have negative effects differently…so who you are really can show what eating plan works best for that individual.

There are REASONS why carnivores do what we do for our individual selves :slight_smile: Reasons that might never fit another person ever so…

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #5

The pdf says “Eliminating the 3 biggest offenders will go a long way. Get rid of grains, vegetable oils, and
sugar.
Soy is a close 4th.
And an interesting thing happens when you do this. You start eating a meat-based diet.
A healthy diet is one build around meat.”

The “And” is not logical. I agree to get rid of grains, vegetable oils (not olive oil, of course), sugar and soy.

But this leaves still lettuce (and all its variants), cucumbers, eggplant, zucchini … The last two, for example, fried with lots of olive oil are delicious.

Why just leaving them aside?

And why also leaving aside fish and seafood?

Why only highlighting meat?

This is what amazes me, why restricting so much with only meat, when there are so many delicious things that are keto, and give a wider variety of tastes and flavours (and possibly, things we need in our bodies, at least long term).

#6

Alot was put to read to you, me thinks you aren’t reading and absorbing LOL

your wonderful lettuce and variants and cukes and eggplants etc give me the ■■■■■ in the bathroom. I get immediate gurgle guts…one reason I walked this way into carnivore.

So what suits you is one of the reasons I am on this plan.

So your wonder foods ain’t all wonderful to all of us now are they?

Your approach seems very narrow, very not comprehending why one food won’t work for another? But read up on how people react to foods differently and why one can eat shellfish and one can die from eating shellfish or why one can eat wheat or one has a wheat allergy as in: A wheat allergy occurs when your immune system has an abnormal reaction to any of the proteins present in wheat.

I mean you do realize we all can’t eat the same stuff and our bodies react the same right? You can’t be saying I have to eat this other stuff to be my best when it works directly against my personal body?

I am kinda lost on your take on this in a way but I put out tons of info for you to read and learn a bit more on carnivore and reasons people want this lifestyle for health.

Do you have a personal agenda? Make all the carnivores realize we must eat the veggies and fruit that make us sick cause you can? Just joshin’ here on that but if the vibe of this thread is change the carnivores to eat the oh so wonderful veg then you kinda don’t have a leg to stand on truly. But hey eat your Med. Keto and live your life in great form and leave us carnivores to enjoy our health thru our eating plan also…we know our bodies and you know yours and never the 2 will be the same :slight_smile:

(Bob M) #7

I don’t mind a discussion about this, but Carnivore Aurelius is no longer carnivore, I believe. He said something about the thyroid caused this.

Saladino - no longer carnivore.

Doesn’t really mean much, but it’s tough to believe someone’s posts/videos when they themselves don’t believe it.

#8

well the science info about plan variations is real whether one was carnivore when they wrote it but backed up into eating keto for health reasons.

I don’t feel facts about things change but the word the ‘gurus’ put out there can change and if it suits their physical bodies to adopt a diff. eating plan as their health changes, I get it.

we can’t tho throw out the science along with the guru all the time and we can’t throw out the info about foods that wreck our bodies but if some find they can backtrack a bit and do ok, cool for them, but others can never do this so the info put out there can show others paths on their personal journeys. I also don’t put all my life into a guru out there hands…I do for me with the info they have provided, if they change and do well, great, IF I try and can’t, cool I know what works for me and not against me.

life isn’t all about the guru writing the info to me personally.

but yea if the guru eats honey and fruits and says I am carnivore then I bulk. If they say they went back low carb cause it works best for them now, I say cool, do you.

#9

I actually think most people on Keto are more Mediterranean than carnivore. Depending on what forums/online communities you visit frequently, your observation may be skewed. If you visit this forum frequently you may feel that everyone is now carnivore as its proponents have been more vocal in recent threads and videos.

However, my online keto communities include Instagram, multiple keto Reddit forums, Facebook, various YouTubers, other forums and my consensus is that most people on Keto are more Mediterranean (veg + proteins). So I wouldn’t go as far as saying there is a strong preference for carnivore in the global (or even national) keto community.

Some people can’t tolerate vegetables. Some people just don’t like vegetables. So, they prefer carnivore.

However I don’t subscribe to the vegetable is bad rhetoric. I eat it and I eat it plenty - along with most keto people I know personally.

(Bob M) #10

So, “Mediterranean” is a made-up thing. It’s not real. It’s supposedly high fish, high MUFA, low saturated fat. It’s complete garbage.

I don’t eat that way. I have seen a few people who eat that way.

I think whether you can or cannot eat plants is dependent on many factors. For me, since I stopped eating salads for quite a while, I can now eat them infrequently. If I eat too many of them too quickly, I get IBS, constipation, and more fun stuff. Why that is, is unclear.

#11

I didn’t know Med Diet was made up fake type ‘diet’ thingy out there. I heard of it but never looked into it :slight_smile: Cool info

---------and to all

there is NO KETO VS CARNIVORE

there are diff. in the plan which are painfully obvious and info. about why the plans are differernt is out there for one to make decisions about them, but other than that…there is NO versus…ugh.

what does that prove in any concept on how a person thrives on one plan or the other?

It doesn’t. Low carb eaters do your thing and thrive, leave us carnivores alone to thrive in our own land and let us talk about it and be happy doing just that. Leave our food allergy issues to us, you can’t change us on what we physically require in our bodies for our food intake, so don’t even bother trying :wink: I have to bow out cause I don’t get the gist of this all.

I guess it is more about ‘keto people should be eating more veg than meat on their plan?’ and I don’t do keto so I don’t know, but it seems alot of people here put tons of emphasis on a more meat keto plan but again, I don’t follow all that closely.

but darn, leave us carnivores alone in the thoughts over what it take for us personally… LOL
ugh, always defending the foods we eat for better health and vitality, gets OLD for ALL of us doesn’t it?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #12

I’m not carnivore and not ‘Mediterranean’ either. I agree pretty closely with the opinion expressed by @ctviggen . It’s a made-up thing. Although I started keto probably closer to what you guys are calling ‘Mediterranean’. But I’ve since drifted away from that. I did so not because I had any issues with specific veggies or don’t like them. I just found they served no useful purpose, despite all the hype about the vitamin and mineral benefits of ‘above-ground’ / ‘green-leafy’ veggies. Same about olive oil. I’ve not consumed either ‘veggies’ or olive oil in more than 3 years and don’t miss them.

Fish, shellfish, etc I think are fine. I eat them regularly, though not frequently. Like a few times per month, but not daily or weekly. On the other hand, I eat lots of dairy: butter, cream, cheese, etc. I also eat meat, but not every day.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #13

It is not made up at all. I grew in Barcelona, and traditionally, people used to eat a Mediterranean diet. Now, people are eating more a “SAD diet”, but still some people eat a Mediterranean diet. And many are trying to come back (they still remember what they ate when they were children).

For example, I eat fish daily, sometimes twice per day (so, more than meat). Even more if I add shellfish. I eat olive oil all the time. I almost never eat butter or cream. I eat vegetables all the time, and with olive oil and vinegar, salads are delicious. Frying vegetables with lots of olive oil and roasting them, it seems that one is feasting.

I continue being surprised that some people argue they do not digest well vegetables, but instead meat is fine with them. I am not a doctor, but unless there is a specific illness, I think it can only be related to food quality. I cannot imagine that vegetables might be damaging to anybody, at least here.

#14

wow, not a real clue
omg
I can’t say more for fear of being banned :clown_face::clown_face:
ok, everyone else can chat up, I gotta run from this thread :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #15

There might be some misunderstanding. In North America the so-called ‘Mediterranean Diet’ was concocted to imitate what was thought to be the ‘common’ and ‘traditional’ diet of all or most people living around the Mediterranean Sea. In other words - someone’s imitation of something that does not exist - ie a common diet shared by everyone living around the Med Sea. Of course, there are commonalities, but each country and culture has their own variation. Contrasted to SAD, this fictional Mediterranean Diet is touted as healthy and nutritious. It probably includes a lot of stuff you folks actually living around the Mediterranean Sea don’t eat much of at all.

(bulkbiker) #16

First it would be helpful if you define what you consider to be a “Mediterranean Diet”.

You might find videos like these interesting

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #17

It’s not actually contradictory. Dr. Michael Eades has a lecture available (in a few different incarnations) on YouTube, in which he reviews archaeological evidence showing that hunter-gatherer societies who ate mostly or entirely a meat diet (which they can tell from a radiocarbon analysis of the bones), are noticeably healthier than agricultural societies with a great deal of plants in their diet. The difference is great enough, Dr. Eades says, that an anthropologist or archaeologist can look at the bones from a site and tell what their diet was, even without the radiocarbon analysis.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #18

PS: I should add that I eat olives during the winter months. Pimento stuffed green olives. I also eat the occasional avocado during the summer but not often. Because of the oil content I consider them both MUFA sources and account for them as such.

When anyone thinks they need to eat ‘veggies’ I always suggest bok choy and baby bok choy since they contain lots more ‘bang for your carb buck’ than other veggies. I doubt either of these is part of anyone’s Mediterranean diet.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #19

Nina Teicholz goes into how this diet began to be promulgated in her book, The Big Fat Surprise. In reality, the countries around the Mediterranean Sea all have such varied diets, that there really is no one “Mediterranean Diet.” The diet known as the Mediterranean diet was put together by Walter Willet of the Harvard School of Public Health, with the blessing of his friend, Ancel Keys.

Also, people go on and on about how healthy olive oil is to eat, but using it as a foodstuff is pretty recent, in historical terms. As recently as couple of thousand years ago, olive oil was used only as a cosmetic and as lamp fuel; the main cooking fats in Mediterranean Europe were butter and lard (also documented by Nina Teicholz).

#20

Cool, thanks for info on that. Interesting.