Carnivore Rocktober - ZC Carnivore 31 day challenge October 2022


#82

Whatever is a standard woe (some not healthy HCHF I suppose), I surely wouldn’t want it and my body is even stricter :slight_smile: You are right, our own standard is very different from the mainstream but that is our standard :slight_smile:

I never had problems with telling if I am hungry, it’s so simple, if I feel hunger, I am hungry, it’s always super weird to me that people mix it with anything else. Or was. It was super obvious on high-carb. Then I went low-carb, got more obsessed with food during the times I actually had to spend much more thinking about what to eat (my early vegetarian paleo days were tricky, I had no idea :D) and tried to eat way, way less (as I had to for fat-loss) and I suppose my body or mind got “creative”. So now I have these not real hunger signs too sometimes. But I got experienced and I can tell them apart. Besides, I pretty much ignore mere hunger, it’s not a good reason for me to eat! I prefer waiting until I NEED food, not just feel hungry or have appetite but I can’t say no to temptation and compulsion. But those are more rare now, fortunately. My end goal is losing them.
I have a hypothesis that my hunger can be artifically changed by other things. Big appetite raises it, negative one suppress it, these things. Not common but happens. If I have only boring food, I may lose my hunger too, not only my appetite.
But I have many different hunger feelings and some demands food, it doesn’t matter if I need it. It’s annoying and I suffer and can’t focus so I eat. But it’s fine if I eat the right food so plant carbs don’t mess with things. It’s quite unlikely I truly overeat so I don’t worry about gaining (but mere overeating never was enough for that anyway) - but I need to lower my calories (so, my fat intake) to have chance to lose fat. It’s how things work for normal people and I never ever experienced the opposite. I never lose fat on keto even if many of my days are carnivore unless I really do all I can to minimize my fat intake. Sometimes it’s easier but my OMAD days are rare, sadly. Those are the best, I don’t even eat at night… As I did yesterday too… Eating meat just because I fancied it and it was there was a bad idea. I don’t understand, this meat shouldn’t be too fatty but I felt “too much fat” afterwards. And I almost never felt that in my life, I handle fat wonderfully as long as there is protein with it. Why then? I felt off and had to balance things out (why I want dairy when it happens, no idea. maybe I miss them. but I eat them. but I would want more? cheese tastes wonderful now but it always does when I ate little of it in the past several days or weeks. I only know that since I dropped my already small cheese consumption and several days pass without any)…
I am super bad at forcing me to things like NOT eating when I don’t need it and am not hungry but I should learn it. Or enforce OMAD but that’s even harder. Or maybe not, I actually have control when well-fasted, not so much between my first bite and bedtime. It’s one reason my eating window should start late. When I was a kid, I had to start eating around 6am. I ate all day and was hungry a lot until lunch (that was the first meal I actually could eat a proper sized meal so that lasted even with all the carbs. the morning small ones made me very hungry. I so, so hated breakfast, one of the worst things that could happen to me. I dropped it as soon as I could but I had to get bigger for that).

So yeah, IDK what I thought when I wrote “works”, I can be super optimistic but I do think I am on the right path but things need a little more tweaking. But I don’t get bored of my meat, I eat well, I am usually quite satiated and my food is so simple, barely any work so it’s not so bad just not perfect yet. I want to get rid of my night eating, first of all.
I didn’t go back to 75kg and this is enough for me now fat-loss wise. I want chill, energy and 1-2 meals a day (0 sounds great too but it’s highly unlikely).


#83

reading great posts! always fun to be on this thread!! wonderful pics too!

today is uber simple
bacon and egg/cheese omelet. Never want eggs, this morning tho I want a 4 egg omelet stuffed with bacon and cheese. yup. next meal will be pork loin chops fried in butter.

done day.

ZC OctoberRockin’ it


#84

I ate so much yesterday (much, much pork…) and my sleep was bad again (enough but not at the right time, super zombie day)… I had some bites here and there (many creamy coffees, for example and my usual one egg scrambled egg I tend to have when I am awake at 6am, this time with some lovely cheese. the same cheese I was bored with when I ate it regularly) but I had only one proper meal, eggs, sausages, cheese and sour cream. I didn’t really want more pork roast, it’s still nice but I felt I can get away without proper meat today. And it’s too tempting, I am pretty sure I ate too much of it yesterday.
I have problems with carnivore now. I.e. I don’t actually do it but I still do try. I function erratically when my sleep therefore my awake state is compromised so I struggle a bit now. My proper meal was carnivore, at least :frowning: I don’t even feel so right, okay of course I don’t, my wrong sleep made my insides feel funny and every plant carb make it worse, probably. I need proper sleep and proper eating. I have reasons, I have supplies but it’s scary what not being myself can do (even if it’s nothing crazy compared to my past). If I ever did stress eating (I don’t think I am that type and if I am VERY stressed, I don’t eat), it was today. But now everything is organized for the funeral. I just need proper sleep, I was awake between 4 and 7 am and it messes with me epically, physically and mentally.

Oh I dropped tracking, it’s not like I have any chance to do it anyway and it’s a small burden anyway. I have some idea how I should eat now, I don’t need my macro information for a while.

Maybe I should do whatever I can in October and come back in November but we all know I am addicted to this thread… But I will try to be not as much as usual.


(Michael) #85

Breakfast today. 7 oz salmon had to wait until I ate more than a few bites to fit on plate


(Karen) #86

Well started the day with stair runs, only 50 but thats better than none and it definitely eased off my sore neck. Sat with books and brew in the glorious sunshine this morning. My yellow begonias are taking off great guns at the mo whereas the pink ones are nearly finished. I didn’t think the yellow ones were going to do much but have surprised me.


Brunch was 4 chipolata sausages 2 rashers bacon and 2 fried duck eggs
Took the stuff i had cleared out to the charity shop in Long Eaton stuffed in my shopping trolley, a nice brisk walk and back and virtually straight out again for a walk and talk with my neighbour and her pooch to nature reserve.

By time I got home I was hungry so while I had some fresh chicken wings in oven I cooked up 4 more chipolata sausages and 4 rashers bacon and followed that with the wings


Still a bit hungry so ate a small tin of tuna and 2 hard boiled eggs.


(Megan) #87

My friend Ruby just took some photos of Lulu (and her pup Jess). Isn’t she gorgeous?!!


(Judy Thompson) #88

This morning I realized I was out of the coffee capsules I usually use - 5 oz Nespresso -grand lungo. So I had 5 capsules of espresso - “Diavolitto” - made one with milk froth for a latte for hubby, put the other 4 with HWC for me. A quad shot! Man, I was racing around for hours, making dog treats, doing dishes, cleaning off the front of the fridge. After lunch I crashed. Didn’t sleep, but just sat there and watched a couple old movies. Glad I got the dog treats made. Tomorrow, I’ll make the dog food for the next 2 weeks and freeze in daily sized packs as usual.
Lastnight I sous vided the chicken so now I have beef tenderloin, center cut pork roast, and chicken all in the fridge ready to sear. Today I started with a hard boiled egg about 11 and then a chicken leg/thigh at 1, but still hungry so seared a slice of beef tenderloin.
Tonight, just a few slices of cheddar. It’s about 9pm now and I’m good for the day.


(Karen) #89

She is gorgeous :heart_eyes::heart_eyes:


(Karen) #90

I need more precise info for how you do the doggo food :wink: time might be getting nearer, we will see. I have the greyhound event approaching on 16th this month… not that I will be making any snap decisions. Still can’t de ide , when the time is right, whether to go smaller doggo, iwhatever I decide, it will be a re-home x


#91

My Mum always had retired race Greyhounds and they really are the sweetest. Every one of them was just a soppy old dope, and those eyes… make me melt : )

It’s sad that people are under the mistaken impression that they require excessive amounts of exercise when the reality is that they’re even more lazy than me. Just need a good super fast sprint then you have to drag them home again :rofl:


#92

Perfect weather here. A walk in the sunlit autumn forest did wonders. I even saw many different mushrooms, no wonder after all the rain… The bracket fungi I have found all young and tender some weeks ago grew up wonderfully and they will just stay big, pretty and hard for ages, it’s a nice positive for this lovely group I love so much. The liver/beefsteak mushroom disappeared :frowning: I wanted to shot it, oh well. I saw 2 deadly mushrooms and now I looked up their name, oh those are good ones. The spectacular jack-o’-lantern mushroom (at its usual place :)) was a bit torn, a bit but everywhere so I won’t make a photo of it next time (I had no camera as Alvaro said he saw mushrooms, the kind he likes so I wasn’t sure there will be space for the camera with the macro lens, it’s not small) and it was nice to see a fiber head mushroom again, it’s somewhat rare here except in one place I rarely visit anymore. And new species!!! Lol, ivory waxy cap or the cowboy’s handkerchief :smiley: I so love English names :smiley: Hungarian ones too but we so often have a separate word for everything. It’s fun when we use a word with a meaning, there is a popular tiny flower called “Little Smelly”, it has no bad smell but not a particularly good one either and it’s kinda strong. And there is “liver mushroom” but so often it’s just another word just for that thing. The fiber head is a fitting name but we just use a unique word. Ivory waxy cap is better as we call it “ivory snail mushroom” as it’s so slimy, that is a good name. Its sibling is “frost-resisting snail mushroom”, I know that since years, a nearby pine forest has it galore in late autumn, they are beautiful and my photos never can show that… I am okay with my flower and butterfly and even hummingbird hawk-moth photos but mushrooms, I just can’t. But I won’t give up.

I got hungry before noon so I ate. I try to limit meat eating to lunchtime (around 3pm) and dinnertime (around 6pm) so I tried to pull it off using eggs only. And a wee bit dairy too. It was a success. I don’t like to rush a meal, I only can properly appreciate it when I sit down for a major meal, this quick eating to get rid of my annoying hunger (or in some cases, not hunger but whatever bothers me that requires food, temptation or compulsion) isn’t as enjoyable (it is enjoyable but still not to the same extent. somehow I need preparing myself to have a proper meal? IDK but my unplanned ones feel rushed and inferior). So my precious wonderful pork roast that I happen to have this time (it’s really not like my usual one, it’s amazing after days) should be eaten at the proper time with the proper care, together with Alvaro (but only I do the pork roast eating. maybe I will tell him it’s awesome and he should try…? he had smoked pork hock before so he didn’t want some other meat. and it was 2885g so I can give him 60g or something, he hardly would want more… I am down to maybe 800g at the moment).

I can be such a fangirl if my food is just right. But I have so great food. I don’t always fancy what I have but when I do, that’s very nice.

So I had 4 eggs, some sponge cakes, a slice of cheese, a little sour cream and creamy, eggy, buttery coffees for pre-lunch. My proper lunch will be meaty, maybe a sausage too and considering how much I ate for pre-lunch, I probably won’t need a dinner. But we will see.


#93

:clown_face::rofl:
I can just picture this :sunglasses:
too funny

@Karen18
yea rehome is a great way to give back to any critters.
I love greyhounds. I also like an Italian Grey which is smaller and a Whippet. All nice. I did want a Papillion for the kid and desperately tried to find a ‘shelter dog Papillion’ and even hit up their rescues but they were no where near me and had waiting lists miles long to get one if one became a rescue. Wild. But always a good way to move forward getting a new house mate.

@MeganNZ, the pup is too cute and has a very kind face. I like that. My bestie had 2 Rotties. Both great dogs. She was a Doberman owner a few times but always wanted a rottie and loved her 2 alot. Make great dogs.

-----------------quickie post. got one of those busy gotta get this done and that done :slight_smile:

simple food day NY Strip steak, few left over pork tenderloins and I have chicken to pair with that.

all good, zc on strong all


#94

Spot on. They are built for sprinting. One HIIT session and they’re done.


#95

Back in the country. Walking on the property. Checking stuff, performing chores in my imagination. That is probably better termed, rehearsing. 2 coffees in the 3 hour drive from the city. 2 low carb podcasts. That sounds funny. Like you can eat them. NoFUN bacon and eggs at 2pm. 3 eggs, 3 rashers.

I was reading @JJFiddle Judy’s post in envy of the quad shot. I think the low carb doctors call that dose superphysiological. I was listening to a podcast about testosterone dosing in women, and low dose naltrexone to treat endometriosis. It was the Low Carb MDs podcast. They were talking to an ObGyn. I think that is pronounced aubergine. In Australia we call them egg plants. I’m getting off track.

I though @Fangs might say watch out that you eat enough, and ZC is important to eat enough to get all the nutrition. That brings back round to the importance of dietary protein in human health.

Migraines contain grains and are absolutely no fun.

Tonight was a nice ribeye steak cooked on the woodfire. It is still cool enough in the evening for a fire. But not absolutely essential.

Enjoyed the colours and shapes on @Naghite Michael’s plate. Waiting for his book about his ZC discoveries and adventures.

This is Nancy in the window.


(Michael) #96

I have been contracted to write a math textbook, so I doubt I would want to write a different book anytime this year, but I was actually thinking of doing something…maybe youtube? :slight_smile: I am running a test on A1C versus formation of small dense LDL on a carnivore diet currently, it will complete in December, so stay tuned for an update on that then.

Separately, glad to see you, Mr. Bear, are doing alright. FYI, I have taught middle school, high school, but mostly have taught at a College (teach math, engineering and physics) for the past 20+ years - so we have quite a bit in common actually.


(Karen) #97

Aww she is so lovely and looks very contented :heart_eyes:

Did stair runs again this morning then a sit, brew and read in the garden. The sun was shining but the wind was quite cold. I really enjoy my reading. Books at the moment Heaven Changes Everything by Todd & Sonja Burpo ( follow on from Heaven is for Real) super read. Also Making Life Work by Bill Hybels another excellent read referring a lot of daily life struggles to The Book of Proverbs, and Daily Power by Craig Green helps. I like reading a few chapters from each… sometimes just one, I don’t get frustrated then when I have to put the book down.

Took Raymond to another Dr appt late morning and then he wanted to buy me breakfast which was fine by me :wink: a cheese omelette with side of bacon.

Took him shopping for essentials then dropped him off at his bungalow.

Dinner was 5 fresh chicken wings i had spiced plus I thought I would add 4 pieces of frozen wings just to see of I could taste much difference. Wasnt really 4 but 2 full wings made into 4 pieces. Well I would like to say that my fresh ones were better but in all honesty I couldn’t tell much between them except different spices.


A bit later i felt peckish as I have mentioned many times, chicken doesn’t hold me for long but I do enjoy it, so I had 4 chipolata sausages and 4 rashers bacon with some special butter.

Sian text me that she has booked an all you can eat meal at 3.30pm on Sunday for the 3 of us (me, her and her hubby) yum i loved it on my birthday, apparently I haven’t forgotten any special date they just wanted to celebrate my retirement :smiley: she is so lovely and thoughtful. :star_struck:


#98

I got hungry early and had maybe 5 meals in total… And wasn’t shy with added fat including cream and sour cream… Such a day had to happen eventually, >200g fat. It may matter that it was a lower-meat day, I do know meat satiates me more than eggs, cheese and nearly anything else… But a big eating window never helps either. Oh well. I never mind this if it’s occasional, I always had higher-cal days here and there on low-carb (I probably had them all the time on high-carb). Tomorrow I will be careful with added fat (zero sounds good) but I surely won’t be very hungry after this day anyway. I should have a meat-heavy day again, our eggs are lowish again anyway, not like it’s hard to buy some…

This great weather continues so I plan a nice amount of walking in the weekend with mushroom photography. It would be nice to figure out how to do it okay… Why are flowers easy and mushrooms hard for me…?
But I plan to experiment with food photography too! I probably will need that if I want to show my food that is often just as it was zillion times already… I doubt I ever will get bored of pork roasts and eggy sponge cakes and I know you folks here don’t say “boring” seeing similar stuff all the time but I don’t feel motivated to make the same lame photos of the same dishes.
I always wanted to make closeups of my sponge cakes, they are so lovely… We will have sunshine too…

I don’t know what will happen to the well-cooked soft skin of the smoked pork hock. I wanted to use it as I always do, ground and mix with pork and egg and fry it and I did but the grinder had problems with the skin even after I added the pork roast and that helps with firmer skin. Maybe next time I will use frozen or half-frozen skin (the hock had so much skin, I put a lot of it into the freezer)…
I ate the result but the not small enough parts bothered me a bit. I need to solve this.


(Megan) #99

Did the hike to a local beach yesterday, designated as an offlead beach. So lucky where I live, lots of places I can let the dogs off. The road in is way too stoney for my walker so it was a slow difficult walk in on crutches. Dogs had a ball as usual. Last night I woke every 30-60 minutes, body feels bruised all over today, stiff and lots of pain. But was still good for me to do.

Been well over a month now my sleep has been awful. Waking every 1-2 hours instead of the usual once, if that. Trying different sleep supplements - various herbs, 5htp - none of them doing anything - yet? I really miss sleeping through the night but will not go back on the quetiapine or the nortriptyline. I’m hoping it will come right eventually but, in the meantime, it’s stressing my mind and body and very likely interfering with healing.

Still mostly eating pork belly as an easy way to hit or get close to my current protein/fat macros. I need to hunt around for a butcher or 2 who is willing to save and sell me pork, lamb and beef fat trimmings so I can cut them up and air fry them and add to meals, and hopefully eat on their own when I want to grab a bite of something. I want to give this KetoAF protocol at least 2-3 months before I fully assess its benefits or lack thereof. I have noticed a definite increase in energy and mood a few days the past week, and very low energy is one of the reasons I’m trialing it. Soooo, cross fingers! Too damn scared to hop on the scales and it’s not time to anyway, I make myself wait 3-4 weeks between weighing. But prior to starting it my weight loss has definitely slowed. I know this happens sometimes and it’s not permanent, so I’m not super bothered - but I definitely don’t want to see numbers going in the wrong direction!!

My body still doesn’t make ketones, and no, I don’t count constant 0.2 the whole time (about 5.5 months) I’ve been keto/carni/KetoAF as making ketones. I don’t care about ketones per se, I care about what they are a marker for. I posted about it a few days ago on the KetoAF facebook and Amber said I’m undereating protein a bit for my height/ideal body weight. I asked how eating more protein would help me make ketones, she said it doesn’t, but not eating enough protein can be interfering with healing. So somehow I need to fit a 5th meal into my day when most days I’m not managing 4. I need to start eating way earlier in the day. I have a many decade habit of not having my 1st meal until mid-late afternoon, probably b/c I have a many decade habit of being a nightowl and not waking until mid-late morning. I’ve managed to bring my 1st meal down to middayish so far.

It’s hard sometimes living with someone who doesn’t support how I’m eating. Ruby isn’t a fan of carnivore and definitely isn’t a fan of how much fat I’m eating - tho she is supportive of not eating as much meat/protein I was eating on carni ad libitum. She’s a mostly recovered anorexic but her head is still full of pro-Ana, CICO, a calorie is a calorie etc etc thinking. She’s currently on a very restricted keto woe for her severe endometriosis and BiPolar mood swings throughout the day. So far it looks like it may be helping which is awesome! But I’ll take what I eat over what she eats any day. Her diet consists of 2 meals of cabbage with a little bit of grated carrot, 100 grams of low fat/carb ham and a LOT of mayo. Plus a little bit of cream in her coffee. Less than 25 grams of protein a day, about 25-30 grams of carbohydrate and a ton of soy bean oil (mayo). We kind of argued the other night about it being too little protein but she stuck to her guns saying all the govt/medical sites she looked at says her protein needs are very very low, based on her height and weight (she’s about 10kg under what her ideal weight “should” be, but she doesn’t look sick/anorexic).

My mood seems ok since stopping my anti-depressant. A bit irritable at times but with my sleep being so awful it could well be that. I need to give my body time to heal from whatever the 3 drugs I’ve been on for years has done to it. Why does everything on this woe take tiiiime?! lol (rhetorical q)

All in all I’m doing okay. Lots of rough goings on in our carni family here a month or two ago, glad to see we’re all mostly cruising along at the moment.


(Megan) #100

Hi Karen! There’s a rabbit hole you can go down when you start researching, especially when it comes to vegetables/carbs and supplements, but here’s how I do it.

As a general rule of thumb I go by this calculation: Feed 2% to 4% of your dog’s ideal body weight. Smaller dogs will require a higher proportion of their body weight, whilst larger dogs require a lower amount. Very active dogs need more than much less active dogs. The only way to know what is the right amount for your dog is to check their body as you go along. Dogs should have a visible tuck seen from above and from the side (yes, even chunky breeds) and you should be able to easily feel, but not see, their ribs. We humans tend to keep our dogs too fat and it’s as unhealthy for them as it is for us.

I feed my girls a mix of different meats and doing this ticks a lot more nutrient boxes than just feeding one or two types. I give them beef, pork, chicken, oily fish (usually sardines and mackerel), raw eggs (very high nutrient bioavailability), green tripe (super good for them for all sorts of reasons), organs (usually liver, heart, kidney) and some bone. I’m not feeding a lot of meaty bones at the moment (been a very wet winter) but buy rolls of meaty, fatty minced chicken frames and minced veal necks to tick the bone/cartilage nutrient boxes.

A note on bones: give bones that are softish - a lot of veal bones are honeycombed, brisket is great, as are meaty fatty chicken frames. Also chicken necks for small dogs. A beef canon bone can provide awesome enjoyment for hours on end, but don’t give them every week - Grace (a power chewer) has really worn down her back teeth after a few years of gnawing on canon bones. Pork bones are way too hard. Not a fan of lamb as it’s hard and some lamb bones splinter easily. Also never give dogs cooked bone. It makes the bone a lot harder (dogs can break their teeth on bones), cooked bones can splinter, plus dogs can’t digest cooked bone. And make sure the bones are big enough that your dog has to chew (crunch them up) before swallowing, especially if you get a dog who is a real foodie.

A note on feeding organs: Just a few times a week is usually enough. They are very, very nutrient dense, plus can give dogs the runs if fed too often.

As for carbs? Dogs don’t need them! Just as humans don’t need them. Dog life expectancy has plummeted since the advent of commercial high carb dog food, they are developing all the same health problems we do eating a SAD diet. A lot of people feed veg, and there’s nothing wrong with a bit of veg, just make sure they are keto veges - green leafy and cruciferous. I give Grace some broccoli every day b/c it has cancer fighting properties.

I have a couple of raw feeding companies I buy a lot of their food from. Buying in bulk definitely saves money if you have the freezer capacity to store it. I also buy things like 5kg bags of chicken drumsticks and chicken portions when on a good special at my supermarket.

For dogs that don’t immediately leap at the chance of eating raw meat, you can very lightly cook it initially while they transition over. Just add more and more raw to the cooked until they are fully raw.

If the dog has been eating a predominantly kibble based diet do a wee transition too. Add a bit of raw to their kibble then over the period of a couple of weeks slowly increase the raw and decrease the kibble. Don’t be worried about a bit of diarrhoea, it’s very common for some dogs to get the runs when there is a change in what they eat - even going from one brand of kibble to another, for example. Their tummy will settle soon enough.

I got crazy lazy with Grace a couple of years back and started feeding her kibble again. Yea it was a grain free kibble but still loaded with carbs. When I put her back on raw after her cancer diagnosis, I added a bit of salt to her food. I still add some sometimes days b/c her diet is ketogenic. Which I guess is another thing, if you want to you can feed ketogenic protein/fat ratios. It can definitely be worth it if your dog has health issues.

I’d definitely recommend one meal a day for an adult dog. Their bodies are geared for gaps between meals, and it frees up resources for the body to focus on healing, getting rid of dead cells, growing new cells and stomping on cancer cells that they and we all have in our bodies etc etc. Digestion is a resource pig.

Sorry! You got a novel lol :crazy_face:


(Judy Thompson) #101

I watched videos on www.naturaldog.com. They had a number of videos on how to make raw foods as well as suggestions for getting bones into the dogs :rofl: Mimsy won’t chew raw bones so I process bone meal, cooked carrot or other veg, a lb of each raw burger and turkey, and 3 rashers bacon. For little 9 lb Mimsy it’s 12 days food but for a greyhound? Hmm, hardly. At 5 years she has great energy, I really think raw makes a huge difference.
Oh yes. The recipe on the site includes organ meats such as liver. For that I dry the liver in the dehydrator. Last time I used gizzards, she loves ALL organ meats at least as much as muscle meats! But the liver has to be balanced with the bone meal, I can tell by watching her stool - too loose, too much liver, constipation - too much bone meal. So I keep organ meats as treats so I can adjust them on the fly.
The other dehydrated treat I make is cut up chicken breast, by the way. She WON’T eat commercial treats, people offer them to her and she never accepts them. (But THEIR dogs always want HER treats, lol)