Carnivore Rocktober - ZC Carnivore 31 day challenge October 2022

#21

Apparently snails are full of magnesium. According to @Naghite Michael. I have always wanted to be a snail farmer. I do like eating snails.

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A sea mollusc known as an abalone (above) is popular delicacy eating around here. They are probably common worldwide? Except, maybe Hungary. The foraging season opened yesterday. I’m not a fan though. But will eat it if offered. I wonder what other nutrients molluscs pack? Oysters are zinc suppliers.

Surf’n’Turf is still a good way to WoE.

I have been eating spring lamb, but snuck in a Cattleman’s steak (like a rib-eye), for one night. I am eating frying cheese (halloumi). Just one slice. Eggs and bacon at noon is usually cooked in the tallow of the meat cooked the night before.

My nephew and niece have been visiting this weekend, They are surfers like me. It was so nice to get to the beach and teach some surfing tips to my niece. Sunshine and saltwater are a tonic.

I think this month I will focus on physical activity. Yep, carnivore WoE seems to reduce and resolve joint aches and pains. And we can joyously fill that gap in our lives with the satisfying ache of well worn out muscles. I started this post with molluscs and finishing with mussels. :wink:

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#22

I was confused too but @Fangs said it’s zero carb from plants and that made perfect sense… :wink: I experienced my egg and meat carbs don’t count anyway. I never feel those carbs. (I still am not sure about lactose, no idea if I feel the difference or not.)
I still don’t use the term ZC but I have no problem with it this way :slight_smile:

Wow, I didn’t know that. Once I ate snails, it was meh to me… And I couldn’t bring myself to collect some (there are zillion big edible snails here. I paint not only rocks but seashells, it’s easy to collect them galore and I like the shape). But I like to know things so thanks.
We have tiny “lemon snails” too (no idea what their proper Hungarian, English or Latin name is, I call them lemon snails as they have a yellow shell), I see them after rain, they are super cute. And many, many pretty slugs, almost all cinnamon colored! Finding a spotted one is rarity. It’s a place very rich in snails. I like most non-parasitic or blood-sucking animals, snails aren’t one my many favs but I like them too.

Apropos magnesium… I still get those baby cramps here and there, not a proper pain but a tiny fragment of it in my calves. Maybe I don’t eat enough meat on average, it’s possible. Maybe I should blame my usual scapegoat (but it’s rarely a baseless thing), carbs. Or who knows?
It’s definitely waaaaay better since I swapped most of my plants with meat, I saw that even in the beginning when I ate little meat. But it’s not perfect yet. I never ever have real, painful cramps anymore though. Just these little somethings and I eat a magnesium pill then. I am aware it’s very nearly nothing (120mg? and I don’t take one every month, just every time I have this) but I am not good with supplements and the not-really-pain goes away (even real cramps went away in the past) so it’s good enough for me short term. Long term I want a proper woe where it never happens.

I was busy with things today, I just couldn’t read all the comments, maybe later.

#23

yea the idea of zero carbs when one eats some shrimp that ‘has some carbs’ or liver that has some carbs means nothing in that the zero carb is NO plant carbs ever. It takes a bit to ‘get it’ for some LOL but once ya get that name coined that way, yea we live it :slight_smile:

and thru your personal experiences you find it also. You ‘never feel the carbs’ in any animal meats. Not ever like eating a plant carb, ie bread or a tater :wink:, we know our bodies ‘feel that’.

Dairy, that lactose, that darn dairy is very very personal to each of us. It can do alot of great for us or it can take us down thru allergy symptoms or can also send us into cravings. the casein is a biggie here but also one has to remember, the more ‘we eat dairy’ on carnivore without gut issues etc…it is never, ever, providing that nutrient total meat/fat needs the body wants. When on is craving FOOD we kinda think, humm, dairy will work and it won’t for many of us. We zc people can use ‘dairy in such a wrong’ way ya know. I did for a while cause I was one who did well on it but realized dairy, ie cheese or heavy cream will never give me what a steak will give me. When in doubt, eat meat. real meat first. Then we can ‘shuffle around that diary cheese and/or cream’ we want into a more acceptable use, getting higher fat intake when we might need it ya know. Yea I walked ‘thru the dairy realm’ and had to make it work for me. More meat I ate the less I ever cared about dairy!

#24

Dairy is my dessert, a little nice stuff in my coffee and some dishes are better with it. Not a real staple, not for every day, not in big amounts… It’s just something that potentially makes my meal nicer :slight_smile:
In the beginning, I clung to my cream and sour cream and had cheese in moderation but very often. It changed, now their significance is way smaller. Quark is an exception, I eat more of it now but I mostly eat it to up my protein when my main food is very fatty, it’s not like I would crave it if I skipped it for some months. But it’s a nice dessert too. The amount is almost quite small but it helps.
I surely will change more in the future regarding dairy. But I like where I am now, I have some dairy but it has a minor role, it sounds okay for my individual case. If I feel it useful, I eat some, if I am happy with my eggs and meat, I don’t. Running out of dairy stopped being a reason for a mini panic (it’s easy to get some locally anyway).

I am very good wanting proper food when hungry, I had that better than the average person all my life I think. I got hungry? I wanted some savory, protein rich, fatty food.
If I am hungry now, I definitely don’t want some dairy, it’s not even a food alone, it’s a condiment for my normal food or a little dessert in the end (or something in my coffee but I really like to add eggs).
Dairy is useless against my hunger anyway. Most aren’t satiating, quark being the exception but that its calorie density is so low and I can’t even eat much of it so it wouldn’t help. I need my staple food first. And it’s pretty hard without meat. If I have easy satiation, eggs and cheese might work but it’s rare. I need eggs and meat too. The two pillars of my eating :slight_smile: Everything else is some more or less useful extra.
It varies if I start with eggs or meat or both at the same time but I surely continue with the other… And dairy typically comes later if needed. This instinctual system suits me very well.

#25

could not agree more here as I thru personal life am a surf/turf gal point blank but $$ has changed me and it has also IRKED the living crap outta me on my ‘lil’ ol’ 2 meals per day’ eating animal only ya know…come on! geeze HAHA

AMEN!!! life where we came from it :wink:

You have a super admirable goal. Just move more. No need ever to go overboard into some gym and push us past some schedule useless life capacity of our bodies, GO LIVE LIFE on your terms and enjoy the movement and smile while doing it and FB I KNOW you love your location and nature surrounding you, go out and about and be part of it, with Mrs B and Billie by your side!! Fab life FB if ya ask me from what I do understand about ya!

#26

yea that was me too. few little hunks as dessert and it ‘set well with me’ but over the years, my ‘new desssert’ is sardines HAHA

dairy while if we do well on it again can be a block to us if we just think, hmm, what does the body desire truly, and IT TOOK alot of time on plan for me to say cheese is not a draw, now my dessert is a tin of sardines :wink: All movement thru the zc plan as we need to live it for ourselves.

#27

I don’t always want dessert and I probably don’t even want it on carnivore (I do proper carnivore so, so, so rarely in summer/early autumn, I don’t even know what that is like for current me), I just need a bit more protein and get bored of eggs and normal meat (not the processed stuff I like to keep low), it happens to me… I can’t eat sardines, it’s too expensive and non-carnivore here (and I don’t like it much but okay for variety very occasionally).
We will see what the future brings. I keep changing for sure. I really would like to do things a bit more simple. It probably will happen.

#28

SO TRUE and you will find you zc way for sure :sunny:

(Linda ) #29

I think when the psmf took off it became a “trend” that has messed alot of ppl up so the swing back to high fat doesn’t suprise me at all. … You got to balance hormones for anything to work.

.Don’t get me wrong there surely are alot of ppl that thrive on pmsf way of eating and or high protein lower fat…but some ppl also thrive on sad. Ppl are all different and we need to acknowledge that…and accept ppls needs are different.

The mistake I see in carnivore alot of groups is Thinking a one size carnivore diet is going to work for all, it doesn’t and it shouldn’t no two ppl have the same DNA hormone issues etc … my needs for protein will not match yours and that’s ok…
What I am seeing just recently with this switch back to fat is some groups dissing other ppls choices to go higher fat from Lower fat… I even saw somone dissing Kelly because now she is “losing muscle” not going to be healthy in her 50s they said…
What I love about Kelly is her willingness to listen and try things …she wants to help,she wants to experience what others may go through for her self… She is willing to say ok so normal carnivore hasn’t, helped try this…maybe more so now she is doing one on one coaching she is starting to see oh crap this may not work for all…
High fat is not going to work for everyone either some ppl just don’t need it… Im fully expecting there comes a point where even with lower protein we prob should taper back and adjust protein up a little at a time…
But carnivores need to come together as a community and define what carnivore is what they want it to be and what carnivore isnt… if carnivore is no fruit /no sugar / no veg then all be on that same page it would cut the confusion…if your not there yet thats ok too but then you prob on the meat/ fruit /and veg diet. Or meat and honey diet … once in a blue moon a bite of this or that is different than if that bite is every day…cos the later is prob not carnivore and never will be…there is nothing wrong with that but be clear because all these extras confuse so man…I think this is where vegan/ vegetarian life styles are possibly stronger they have boundaries you cant eat meat every day and call your self vegetarian…but its not on how much .green vegies or how much starchy vegies one eats that is what makes them vegan or vegetarian… you don’t see them trashing somone for changing up on which vegie they will eat more of…

#30

Well I couldn’t eat an ounce of meat per year and call myself a vegetarian (others may but it was my personal opinion regarding only my own case) :wink: Actually, I can’t even eat most cheese for it but few people care about that I think. But worms in my cherries, they were innocent accidents.

But if one eats vegs (or honey, I am totally with you and @Fangs. it’s so very far in the opposite direction! at least in my eyes. carnivore is all about extreme low-carb for me, honey goes totally against it. and sugar, sweetness, so very much nope. even if a pure animal sugar bomb would appear, I wouldn’t consider it okay. just like I don’t consider liters of milk a good idea. and why is this love towards honey? there are so many vegans and carnivores who wants it badly, I don’t get it and I LOVED honey. but I went low-carb and stopped eating it, okay I had some occasional visits for a while, mostly in December. Alvaro did the same, he stopped eating sugar so honey as well, simple), that’s not carnivore, it’s obvious to me. Spices in a grey area, fine but that’s it for plant sugar (honey is plant sugar. the sugar content comes from plants, clearly, the bees just process it. but as I wrote, I don’t think it’s a good idea anyway).

True, not vegs what makes someone a vegetarian. In extreme cases a vegetarian eats no vegs but I am not familiar with that. For vegetarians, vegans and carnivores it’s about what one doesn’t eat.
But a carnivore needs meat, that can’t be skipped :slight_smile: I think I still only had ONE meatless carnivore day. It didn’t end well but I was stubborn and meatless, it was in the beginning…

So… The weekend ended and I really need to start some super strict week. A few days at least, 5 would be nice and easy enough.
I roasted 2885g pork butts (the cut I buy as “thigh” but it can’t be fresh ham, it’s a bit fattier and looks different…?). I researched a bit and now I don’t have the foggiest idea about its fat content, I got totally uncertain. Not tracking was good but I like to have numbers on my simple days. Oh well, I can always fall back to measuring my meat and counting my eggs :wink: I will know the protein accurately enough (but if my body does what it likes to do nowadays, I just get satiated with not too lean food and it will be about 120g) and fat does whatever, I still can guess something and maybe it’s 40g more but I should be able to do it better, I will compare the meat to more cuts I have a better idea about.
Or just forget it all.

And this is a leaner cut I should be able less problem with. This wonderful pork hock I ate so much today (carefully as poor Alvaro needs some too, he will eat his carby dish for days and the pork hock gave it a lovely flavor but it should go along with it but then I obviously went and ate up a lot from the hock and the rest has lots of bone, skin and fat though I wasn’t shy with the fat part so that’s not very much), that’s a real mystery. I eat all the fat and some of the meat, some of the skin after I cut off a big amount of meat from the individual but at that point less mysterious (fat content wise) pork hock.
But who cares, fortunately I don’t eat it all the time while desperately wanting to know my macros. I would be doomed.

So, I don’t make big goals and plans for October but for the next days, my approach is “eggs and pork roast”. If I need I will add a sausage or a little sour cream or a buttery egg milk but it’s not the plan.
And now I have only a few eggs and we have other plans for tomorrow and who knows what the rain will do (it shouldn’t come but it rained a bit today as well)… So I do what I wanted anyway and just try to get satiated with my pork! :slight_smile: Maximum simplicity! Normally I fry or ground some of such a big slab for variety but now I just roasted it all. I probably would face some kind of problems but it will be interesting to try to keep it super simple.
And I want to avoid coffee and especially milk. My fav brand was on sale last week and I overdid it a bit or more than a bit. I actually hold back after a very milky day but I feel it’s best to forget about it for some days now.

So pork roast, eggs, water, tea if I can’t stand only water as my drink… My collagen peptides arrived too…
And I plan to wait until I really need to eat. It’s not that hard lately though today I had some bites before my early dinner. But weekends are different.

(Megan) #31

Except when non carnivores say “but dairy has carbs in it, some meats have carbs in them”. And coffee, which some carnivores drink, has carbs in it and isn’t from an animal. That’s the confusion I meant.

As for people calling themselves carnivore when they eat fruit regularly, I’m not sure what to say. Well, I could think of a few things, but I’ll be nice and keep them to myself lol. All the non-carni things being added in can confuse the heck out of some people, as can all the differing ideas of “how to do carni” (just eat meat and give it time, eat high fat/lower protein, eat higher protein/lower fat, eat within a small window, fast at least sometimes if not regularly, spread your protein out across meals etc etc). Especially when people who are zealous, or people who like being influencers and may also make money off it, say their ideas are the right way.

The internet and social media can be a flipping cesspit. I’m glad I keep my forays into it limited.

This made me laugh. Thanks Linda.

#32

They are just like people calling themselves vegans and eating meat. Mislabeling, very clearly. I dislike that behaviour as it confuses people and the labels lose their strength. Labels are useful to express things in a concise way… But not when people use them wrong all the time :frowning:

How on earth could be fruit carnivore? It’s very, very obviously isn’t, it’s sugar, it’s the farthest from carnivore I can imagine. Even my indulgent “carnivore-ish” definition doesn’t allow them (except a few lemon juice drops as condiment in an egg/meat dish, maybe but I rarely use that too) no matter how many times I eat a tiny bit of fruit in summer and in autumn. Those are all off days. Of course it’s my personal label, not much to do with other things but I don’t think eating very sweet very sugary things is against carnivore only in my opinion… But of course, as they are very obviously not animals, they can be avocados and it’s still not carnivore at all. (I remember the thread when someone didn’t understand why avocado isn’t carnivore… I don’t get it, it’s a PLANT. No matter how much one loves it, what are its macros and nutrient content, it is a PLANT. Not an animal. Very obvious. And mushrooms are fungi, it doesn’t matter they aren’t plants and have chitin, carnivore is eating animals, not cherry picked items from the other kingdoms too.)

But we know people. Many of them are searching for loopholes. People want to call themselves fasters but they still want to eat stuff while fasting… Or eating plants and fungi while calling them carnivores… Animal stuff while calling themselves vegans… Well it’s not how things work, no matter how creative people get.
What’s wrong with being carnivore adjacent or on/off carnivore or “I eat whatever I consider right”? Or my “very low plant net carbs most of the time” that I consider my goal as it seems to be enough and needed for me? (And if it gets simpler and stricter, cool but I won’t force it.) I still don’t fully understand the huge desire for a label when one isn’t committed to do what it really means.

And there are tweaks and different styles, of course they exist, people are different and our diet isn’t uniform or simple, not even following the same labeled woe (without mislabeling)… People even are at different parts in their own journey. It’s inevitable they do different things, they need different things and we often don’t even know what is best so we experiment… It’s normal and unavoidable.

(Megan) #33

Great post Linda!

(Robin) #34

I seriously doubt that all the carnivores just from this forum could come to consensus on a strict definition of what is and is not carnivore. Even if that were to happen, it wouldn’t change anything. We all tweak as we progress. I really don’t label my diet or stake a claim to a one-size-fits-all protocol.

I went to a big party last night and was asked often about my diet. I just said I keep eliminating food that doesn’t work for me. I never used the word carnivore (although the only thing I consume other than meat is coffee and heavy cream).

In the meantime…
I’m sitting here realizing this is the 2nd time I have had a delicious meal of air fried pork bellies. Beautiful and Yummo. But once again, my gut is now sending frantic SOS signals. Drat. I see more tweaking ahead.

(Michael) #35

Putting religion aside, we are all carnivores on this sub forum https://www.livescience.com/53466-carnivore.html . Those who are on the carnivore diet would mostly be hypercarnivore, even with some cheat veggies. Adding in religion, practically no one on these boards meets true carnivore status 100% of the time. Maybe a few, but I add in eggs and cheese which are not meat, but not enough to knock me out of being an obligate carnivore diet officially. Some cheat with dark chocolate might kick me out of a pure carnivore diet on these boards, but it would not effect my scientifically defined hypercarnivore (ism).

(Judy Thompson) #36

When I was vegetarian I was very strict and didn’t eat eggs or meat, read all ingredients, for 11 years. Now that I’m carnivore I’m just as strict, don’t eat any plants with the exception of coffee. It seems cut and dried to me.
@Fangs thanks for sending out the search party - I was reading, but need to post at least a little.
Today was a very slow day, made me realize how crazy life has been! Nothing going on, rainy outside so even the dogs just wanted to stay in and sleep.
I boned the last of the chicken and cooked a lb of grassfed hamburger but the latter didn’t taste right to me so I just ate the chicken. In the evening I had braunschweiger and cheddar, shared some with the pups, and called it a day.
Tomorrow, shopping, a few students. An easy week coming up.

(Megan) #37

Hi Judy, good to hear from you. I’m doing a death by pork belly week long challenege at the moment and my 2 dogs are in heaven! I’m eating all the fat but sharing some of the meat with them. My 9 month od rottie pup is such a foodie, I’ve nearly lost my fingers a few times. Teaching her “gentle” is definitely a work in progress.

(Karen) #38

@Azi The nurses thought it was panicl/anxiety attack. Felt better resterday when I got up. Through night I had to take some panadol as still had the headache but think that may have been partly due to vaccines as my skin alsof elt hot to touch but without the flu type fever. No further vaccine side affects thankfully. Went dancing yesterday afternoon which was nice. Although Raymond strained his groin and was in agony. No dancing for him for at least 4 to 8 weeks! Fortunately that happened near the end of the afternoon. One thing after another lol.

Thanks to you all for your concerns @MeganNZ @Shinita@ @Fangs @JJFiddle
@Fangs you said exactly what my daughter said, I no longer need the rush to appts and can just reschedule. I think its hard when I have spent my life being on time and not missing appts etc, it is something I will have to adjust to … not deliberately lol​:smile: oh and thanks for thinking of me as such a friend, it means a lot :heart:

But yes feeling well and truly okay now.

Had to skip a few posts, not got my specs on!

So yesterday I went for an early 3 mile walk with my daughter around nature reserve. Took some mealworms to hand feed the birds only to find that they still have avian flu up there and signs asking people not to feed the birds :disappointed:

Didn’t get a chance to eat before going to tea dance. I took 2 hard boiled eggs with me but didn’t end up eating them. The people who run the dance are super lovely and kept trying to get us to eat some food in the break. All buffet style stuff but you know me … I don’t cave with that stuff. They were so pleased to see us that they wouldn’t let us pay either! Don’t think we’ve been there since pre covid lockdowns!

Got home about 7.30pm after dropping Raymond off and made 2 scrambly duck eggs and 3 rashers bacon followed by a few mussels. Then early night and another pretty good sleep
The deep sleep still registering over an hour! Considering wed nights sleep it registered 13mins I think I’m in Heaven :smile:

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#39

I slept at the right time! Just not enough, again. Why I wake up that early when I need sleep… Maybe next time it will be better. But I can draw even in this zombie state (I won’t win this weekly round as my first pics were quick rushed things and the tools are troublesome, maybe next week, now I am warmed up. I like challenges and we, my friends and me get ad free playing for 3 months if I win again. we play rarely nowadays but it’s fun, we all have a bit of a creative mind)…

My card reader has difficulties so I will show my pork hock later.
My roast took its sweet time but I just gave up around 140 mins :slight_smile: If it won’t be good enough for me, I just fry it in the pan for a few minutes. But it must be lovely and tender at this point.

It’s a very sunny day, I plan to go for a long walk but I will see how wet the grass is. The forest surely will be muddy but I can handle that to some extent, I just don’t want to walk 2 hours in wet socks.

I weigh much again but my weekend was crazy according to my new, less indulgent standards. Hopefully I go back to 73kg soon, I liked the change, it was 75 for years already.
So I am back and focus on quite proper, meat and eggs carnivore for now. Mostly meat. I don’t even play with my usual egg milks if possible. If my pork chuck data is right, thigh/ham* must be super lean (from my viewpoint, at least. 5% fat in weight for “thigh”, that sounds right. odd that it’s leaner than pork chop but that has a fat layer too and this thing is quite lean in the meat part, it’s just softer and better than chop, IDK why but I love one and dislike the other but I did that as a kid too, with more similar items). I may be able to pull it off today but I will need to figure out some fat source later… No idea. I don’t want to add processed meat or sour cream often, definitely not now. It’s so silly if I will get this problem, I kept trying to lower my fat intake for 10+ years in vain… The hock still have fat, maybe I will use that first, it’s more tempting now than other processed meat.

*as it seems butts means shoulder, not the butts of the animal, it’s crazy and I have just found out. So English has these odd things too, we have “lower thigh” for calves of a bird, the drumstick part. But if it’s pork, thigh is the the behind of the animal, even the part we call butts in humans. it’s confusing. And I can’t even say gluteus maximus as it’s not all that.
Ham is an umbrella term then and it may be extremely lean and very fatty too.
But we never call the cut “pork thigh” ham… Ham is for processed stuff. English has the term fresh/green ham so I probably will stick to it.
But WHY is part of the shoulder called butts…?

But eating is in the distant future, it’s morning now.

#40

@Azi, real good post. I so agree with it. I think one of the ‘big’ issues with forums on carnivore is the different stages and years each person is on this lifestyle. A newbie won’t usually be eating like a 3 yr + veteran. And you are so right that people’s fat intake etc will be very personal too. But when one reads what another is doing, upping fat alot and limiting protein down someone might try that and get messed up. Or many SO think that OMAD is so imperative where it really is not if the body of the person ‘putting themselves’ on OMAD doesn’t want it or function best off it.

One of the most important things doing this plan is just ‘get settled on this plan’ ya know. Which is why when I started omg did I eat. I ate so much it was scary but I gained like near 10 lbs and then bam, I lost it lbs like crazy fast. But key being if I didn’t eat all I wanted, all I desired in a day, I would never have held this plan! Having unlimited amt of food to eat, all I wanted, was a massive key factor for me to stay on this plan, give it the time required to ‘change me’ as it was gonna do ya know.

You definitely wrote a good post. I agree Kelly is definitely firmed out there, learning new directions and info and always keeps it ‘real carnivore’ ya know. I sure like that about her!!

:partying_face::rofl: So agree. I had to dump alot of ‘carnivore’ forums that were just fluff and useless. I am also very limited now in my zc chat out there.

you sure have been busy with all your gigs and more. Glad you have a slower day, enjoy it!! An easy wk sounds like a good wk to me :sunny: I can’t handle high speed days anymore, I used to be that person, now if I ‘have to do’ more than 2 things in a day it irks me HAHA

OW and another OW. that has to be miserable for him plus having to rest off dancing for almost 2 months…hope he heals fast and you guys can have more dance time out and about.

oh boy I feel ya on that one. I hate wet socks while hiking or at any time :slight_smile: I walk down to the barn to feed the goat and every time come back with soaking shoes…drives me insane actually…haha…Enjoy your walk and hope everything is drier for ya!!

-------------------real great zc chat on the board and onward we go.

today is super simple again. Ribeye steak and eat up the last of the chicken I got in the fridge.

Had some provolone cheese yesterday. I used to be in love with that taste, but now, hmm, the cheese wasn’t a draw to me. Kinda like it is one cheese I sure can do without which is fine, I will stick to my beloved cheddar I actually just use when I want cheese. Very sharp good cheddar is my draw definitely. Provolone, while it tasted ok I can tell just isn’t something I require anymore in my life. It amazes still this long into the lifestyle of carnivore that I find ‘I just don’t require or need in any way’ some foods that I thought back in the day ‘I could never live without’ :wink:

Rocktober just started, hope we all have a great month!!