I am a 62 year old post-menopausal woman. I have lost 45lb in the past decade by eating low carb / keto. I now stand at 5’8” and 169lb and would happily lose another 10 to 15 lb, but my real goal is health and well being.
I have a few residual health issues with some psoriasis and some arthritis but most of these problems went away when I cut the grains out of my diet for good.
I am giving serious consideration to trying carnivore or zero carb and wondered if anyone had any advice to offer.
ZC is not a weight loss diet, often a keto person (like me) will temporarily gain weight as we have been restricting protein and maybe calories for years. You certainly will see health improvements though, and eventually your weight will stabilize to what is best for you (not always what you want though) Keto 2 yrs. ZC 2+ yrs.
2 fold.
I am 5’8 and heading directly at 165/170 as my goal and about 20 or so from it so I bet ya look darn good now 
We all want those vanity lbs gone but zero carb will never and ever be about a number on the scale. It is not that plan in its values. It is a health plan.
Heck ya might gain before you lose more to your natural state your body wants. Yes being keto you will probably lose a few water weight lbs. deleting all carbs, but zero carb would will take you beyond.
You eat all you want as your body dictates. You might gain as you come from whatever malnourishment or personal med troubles or ‘literally whatever your body requires’ to fix and heal. SO many can’t fathom that ever. The scale rules and it will never be that way on zero carb as a focus of success.
So that being said…zero carb is one thing literally. Eat all you desire and need at all times. Meat/seafood as you see fit. Animal kingdom products only. Clean zero. Thing is you must drop the ‘old baggage’ of what you came from cause we all have it, all we ‘heard is best for our health’ and if you find it is not and end all to be all listening to the ‘experts’ who rule our lives zero carb is a great personal exploration to explore.
Posted is a great video just put out in the carnivore section. Check it out…a why we fail at zero carb video. Tons of truths in there and hoping you read up and ‘go for it’ if you see fit
Wishing you the best of how you roll thru it all and we are always here to help you at any time thru your ZC journey!
How long have you been on keto, and how many green vegetables have you been eating? The more green vegetables you’ve been eating, the more likely you are to run into oxolate dumping issues from what I’ve seen. If you’ve been eating minimal vegetables anyway for 2 years, I think the answer is different than if you’ve been keto for a month, and have spent the last two years living on kale,spinach, and broccoli. The former will probably be smooth sailing, the latter could mean some unpleasant side effects.
Even in the latter case it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t give a try, because it’s easy to stop if you don’t feel well or experience weird side effects after a couple weeks. Lots of people here have gotten amazing benefits from carnivore. Some didn’t like it and gave it up after a few weeks. The only way to find out is to give it a try.
That’s my 2 cents anyway.
good 2 cents Don!
and love this…because it’s easy to stop if you don’t feel well or experience weird side effects after a couple weeks.
funny thing is this is where one does not stop. Dumping of toxins and all are super important if you do have side effects of withdrawl and more it shows ones needs to follow this path thru it all then give up.
Once on the other side of our personal journeys, then one can truly say should I go back? Personal again Complete the change and all other ‘should Is’ come into a real truth play of it all.
I’m definitely no expert on the subject. I’m curious to know the extent to which oxolate dumping occurs on a regular ketogenic diet as a consequence of reducing (but not eliminating) oxolates. Let’s say for example that on “normal” 20g carb per day keto one’s oxolate drops from 750g/day on SAD, to a more modest 10g/day on keto. Does not this also “dump” oxolates? Put differently, is there benefit to dumping oxolates on a plain ol’ vanilla keto for a few months or years prior to doing carnivore to lower the oxlates in the body on a more gradual schedule? Some of the side effects of oxolate dumping that I’ve seen struck me as quite severe.
This presupposes that oxolate dumping can occur without the complete cessation of oxolate consumption however, and I know next to nothing about that. How does oxolate dumping actually work? What mechanisms accelerate oxolate dumping vs inhibit it?
while oxalates are real, issues are rare, esp. severe ones. It’s only come to the forefront as high oxalate keto people are leaving for carnivore- even then everyone jumps on the New! Reason! I! Have! To! Keep! My! Chocolate! or some such crap. See a doctor (there is urine testing…) no real other way to know for sure. Sally Norton, TLO on FB even has a TLO- Carnivore group now.
Does remaining on plain vanilla keto at 20g/day reduce oxolates in the body at a more measured pace, or is it necessary to completely abstain from oxolates (e.g. zero carbs) in order to get the benefit?
I firmly believe we are all so individual that personal experiences come into massive play on this type of ‘how bad can it be’ for all of us.
So any and all lowering of ‘the bad’ out there will absolutely help us as we all know from giving up processed chem foods, high oxalate, those with nightshade sensitives and tons more obviously.
thing is where does 1 person stand?
elimination of any given whatever toxin effects your body ultimately will be the forefront of how one detox’s etc.
All in cold turkey? Walk down the stages to detox? Not add back in any bad identifiers of what you are detoxing from? So many questions literally and while all have big answers of yes and no, how does one truly walk down a path of nutritional change thru a miriade of crazy dieting old baggage info out there while living their lives with other massive factors in play and finding what works for you personally. Trial and error I believe is best as we all go thru it in our lives.
Life a game? darn right it is but one thing about it is where does one put effort if truly required? Where does one draw a line and go?
again just so personal. One should go directly as they feel they need and then as they are there ask questions about who has walked there before them. It was always 1000% of where I learned, from others.
So what I am saying is I don’t know ‘all there is to know’ about true oxalate dumps from a person’s body and severity of it all…but the internet and info from those who experienced sure can be a way to move forward with good info.
just a chat on it all.
chatting is the way to finding some things we need and learning a bit more thru what others think…all good things
I rewrote it a few times, it’s the most concise one, I just can’t do it without talking about my tiny and not proper experience as it’s so good!
It’s worth a try I guess… I am happy I was crazy enough to jump into some carnivore trials from basically vegetarian keto/low-carb (I had more high-carb days than meaty ones and I almost never had high-carb days. I was in love with vegetables too, for more than 4 decades, no idea what happened but I don’t miss them now).
We are all different so even the carnivores here can’t say what will happen with you. I am just flirting with it at this point but it seems I never will go far from it for long… It’s just too perfect, I just skipped plants and added a little meat and it immediately solved most of my problems regarding satiation and food addiction (not the coffee one). My relationship with food changed a lot. I can add some carbs and I keep the benefits but more and they disappear, nothing surprising about it. No longer term or proper (with enough meat) experience but it seems extreme low-carb agrees with me now that I was ready for it. Maybe it’s the case with you as well.
I did it for various reasons, including fat-loss. It seems it’s my best bet for that too, I tend to eat less and feel better when I reduce my carbs. But I am pretty patient and quite pleased with the other benefits. I will add more meat, of course as it’s needed for my nutrition and anyway, it’s simpler and more enjoyable that way. I will have a nice variety too, various animals and their various parts including organ meat, eggs, little dairy (especially lactose-free). Different people may eat quite differently even on carnivore. Fat:protein ratio, presence of dairy or organ meat, only ruminants or a bigger variety…
Maybe you can’t eat as much fat in the beginning as later (like me) but it often matters if it’s rendered fat and even if it’s rendered, solid might work while liquid isn’t.
You will probably need some time to get used to it (especially if you will have problems as some people) and tweak it to find your ideal woe. Good luck!
It won’t hurt to give it a month and see how you feel. I’ve heard of so many folks getting great results, that they didn’t expect by switching to it. Some never go back!
Thank you all very much for your responses.
Rather than jump into the pond, I have decided to make a slow and dignified [?] glide into the water at the shallowly shelving side. There will be less splash that way and the critturs which live in the mud at the bottom are less likely to be disturbed.
I am reading Dr Shawn Baker’s book at the moment and have followed Mikhaila Peterson’s journey for a long time.
My plan is to cut out and cut back gradually so that non-meat based items are phased out slowly. That should resolve any issues around oxalate dumping.
My plan is to continue with the black coffee in the morning, unless I find it gets in the way when I am further out into the middle of the pond. Do you do carnivore plus coffee?
It is personal. Many drop it, some just keep it cause they love it.
Comes down to a personal choice for you mostly.
be aware that in the beginning especially it’s recommended that you eat before you have coffee or at least with your coffee. Coffee can dull your appetite which can prevent you from eating enough to really experience the benefits that you’re looking for and there’s nothing wrong with a cup or two a day, but for people that drink coffee all day long we highly recommend cutting way back
Interesting. Thank you @Elizedge
At the moment I tend to start the day with black coffee and then eat breakfast much later. Good to have the benefit of your experience before my big toe dips in the shallow edge of the pond. I may have to adjust my program significantly.
I like your style 
The approach sounds nice too, many people find gradual changes better, in general, not just regarding carnivore, I don’t have knowledge about that.
Coffee, it’s individual. Some people has a more relaxed approach than others and we have different relationships with this liquid. If someone drinks it galore every day, that might be problematic, carnivore or not. If someone doesn’t really need coffee, why to drink it?
If you need your modest amount of coffee for something, I don’t see why to add an extra hardship right in the beginning, keep it, later you may decide if it’s fine for you.
I do carnivore and coffee, as the coffee is the one thing --that one luxury item I enjoy enough to keep me from going backwards in my journey. I just don’t drink nearly as much as I used to. Most days, I feel so good, that I’ll stop at one cup. On a few occasions recently, I didn’t even finish that first cup!
Re: going carnivore. I am 52, 5’8". and bobbing between 182-189. I did a 7 days fast to clear out my system- and had some aches here and there. Could not tell you if those were from oxalates or from muscle aches 100%. But, felt great after that fast. I jumped in the carnivore pond the first time around late August/early September, I think. Hadn’t read or understood much about oxalates. Learned about them a week or so after I jumped. Ow. I ate a moderate amount of spinach as one of my greens, but the real stinker was the almonds. Almonds were my go-to munchy, crunchy friend when I needed something to nibble. Now, I didn’t go through days and days of suffering, but, I did feel some moderate aches in the knees especially. (Knee pain has haunted me since I was 15-and have undergone 5 knee surgeries since then.) It went away entirely within a few days or so.
Since that time, I’ve gone off carnivore briefly, eaten some nightshades like tomatoes, and promptly recognize the aches and pains all over again. Maybe I’m just super sensitive. But, there is a recognizable improvement in staying carnivore. My skin issues disappeared entirely, along with the aches and pains now.
The gradual cutting out of the veggies is the best idea, I think. Hind sight is 20-20, and it would have been wise of me to go that route.