I have already had a relative say I am crazy and carnivore is “not healthy”. Now my wife at the salon was told carnivore is good for weight loss but dangerous long term. I asked her “did you ask why?” No she didn’t. So I ask here, does anyone know of any valid reason that carnivore is “dangerous or unhealthy” other than the standard “It just can’t be right”?
Carnivore get poor mouthed again
Ellacosew
#2
I can think of one way it is dangerous, and that is telling anyone about it that you don’t absolutely have to…
One 20 year ZC’Er springs to mind as a well-meaning Carnivore who just wanted to spread the good news, and basically was chased off the internet by people accusing her of abusing her (obviously healthy happy) kids with ribeye.
That is about it. There are social costs to pay. I don’t know of any others.
If anyone asks I just say, “I’m eating sensibly now”. 
PaulL
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing)
#3
It’s because you can’t get any of the essential nutrients when you stop eating all those lovely plants. How are you going to survive without vitamin C and all those lovely phytochemicals? Remember that the nitrates and nitrites in plants are very healthy for you, whereas the nitrates and nitrites in meat are deadly carcinogens, despite being exactly the same chemicals. Not to mention that all that arterycloggingsaturatedfat is going to give you a heart attack. And besides, if you are not eating plant foods, you are probably in ketosis all the time, and we all know that a ketogenic diet is unsustainable and is going to kill us. 
#NOTDEADYET
VirginiaEdie
(Edith)
#4
I think people say it’s bad because they think carnivores won’t get all the vitamins and minerals they need without plants. Vitamin C being the biggest worry. That was a big worry of mine, I have to admit, but I’m 4 months into total carnivore (no plants at all) and I haven’t gotten scurvy, yet.
We’ve also been told over the years that red meat causes cancer, and that saturated fat causes clogged arteries. All of the dogma is enough to cause worry in friends and family.
Now, with that being said, if someone mentioned those concerns to me, I would ask why a vegan diet, that also completely leaves out a food group and NEEDS to supplement B12, is considered healthy. Carnivore needs no supplementation. It is nutritionally complete.
Shinita
#5
THEY should think about valid reasons. The ones who say it’s dangerous. They probably never tried it. Hey, I tried it for shorter times (and loved it and made it my default woe even if I stray, me being me) and I still don’t know a lot about it. But my body responded very enthuistically, I eat very nutritious food and there are people who did it for very long and they are still fine so at least one style works for some kind of people, it can’t be simply “bad”. And… What else would we need to eat? What would that give us that carnivore food doesn’t? (Whenever I eat plants, it’s for various reasons but it’s never to get nutrients, I get plenty from my normal food as far as I know. I know a few nutrients I get in small amounts but interestingly, those problems disappeared on carnivore - as long as the meat isn’t too little but I only did that in the beginning because I had no better options then - and not because the meat would have much of that nutrient. My needs must have changed, it happens as we know. I’ve read some carnivore articles before I went even near to that woe out of curiosity so I never was afraid I suddenly get scurvy or lack of fiber would cause problems but there are other nutrients meat doesn’t necessarily have much. I will keep learning I hope.)
I surely wouldn’t explain things, I would ask back and let’s see if that will trigger a longer response or something. If they would say I must eat sugar for health, I would just walk away, for example… I so don’t have time to educate the ignorant masses.
Of course, all woe can be done unhealthily. And what. We should do it the right way. It’s not THAT hard on carnivore as far as I know (I mean, doing kinda okay. Not perfectly right away). There are way trickier diets for that.
If I was in some impatient mode, I would say alas, I can’t eat any other way than what I do now (true) so I will get ready to get sick and probably die soon (nope :D). Unhealthy? So be it. It’s my life and I do whatever I do want and can 
Not what others tell me to do.
(No, I wouldn’t say it’s unhealthy. Damn. It’s hard to be me. But I should think about some smart response if I ever go close to people and talk about my woe. As I sure as hell will tell them what I do if they ask. It’s fun. But I love being a semi-hermit so the chance for it it very low… And the forums I frequent are way too tolerant. The other forum is all about calorie counting and still, they are tolerant as long as I am not some jerk about my woe and I am not. There are disagreements but they are almost always civil. And I help the new ketoers, it’s not that popular in this country but it gets a bit more popular as time passes).
Poor ZCer but it sounds so funny in the same time… Abusing kids with ribeye… Well it’s a touchy topic if kids are involved and parents really should know what they are doing there (too bad they often don’t). And people are so very sure they know how people should eat. That is the core of the problem IMO, people are way too closed-minded and accept some beliefs as facts.
We know there are those guidelines and people believe in them most of the time, no matter how they actually eat.
I meet stuff all the time. Yesterday I’ve read about very healthy breads (I never could get over the fact that if we don’t use white flour but wholemeal one - and maybe even add some different grain and even oily seeds if we are really health-conscious but they are optional -, then the horrible awful damaging white bread suddenly transforms into a nutrious, super health food. and I don’t even exaggerate, I met this exact belief many times. and I get it that it’s different but not to that extent and the difference isn’t even important for everyone), today about apples (that they are very healthy and has no sugar. I don’t even bat an eye at this point, people has no idea what carbs and sugars are. or meat, apparently. I’ve read eggs has no fat - in an article not like that says much - so I don’t really expect any nutritional knowledge from the average person).
People are usually have no idea what they are talking about when they criticize someone’s woe so I really don’t know why we should care much or at all. I like a nice discussion so if the other person is open-minded enough, I may talk with them about it. But it’s so pointless when they are fixed in their very wrong beliefs.
And we are all different anyway. My ideal woe isn’t other people’s ideal woe. What’s more, my ideal woe has nothing to do with my old maybe not ideal but at that time best option for a woe. Our attitude is different too. Our desires. I don’t know why but most people are so blinded when this is the topic, how we eat. On keto forums too, there are people there as well and some of them think only their way is the right one.
It was hard enough to find my right woe (actually, I still need some finetuning and it surely will change a bit eventually), it took ages, I am sure about it, I don’t need to bother with other people as well. They should do their own research, tests, decisions and whatnots. I am very fine with people disagreeing with me. It’s fine.
Fangs
#7
answer is not one plant carb is needed by the physical body ever for total life survival. Only protein and fat are and ‘of course’ animal protein trumps plant protein all the time for power vs. power stance truly so…
dangerous long term…cause it is BASHED INTO OUR HEADS what healthy eating is and all backed by big corporations to make ya eat their foods as they want ya to eat them so they brain wash it all and put sugar in everything to draw you in and addict us and keep us way less than healthy and miserable so we stay controlled and on ‘their plan’ of how they want us handled.
and you will never convince most that zc is the most normal way to eat and how many times do ya read…keto plan is not good long term? seen it a million times.
ugh ugh and one more ugh for the people who have no clue ya know. tired of trying to convince any of them.
thing is, I am still on a low carb forum and chat with a few friends from my years as low carb…and get this post, it made me so freaking sad…how can anyone live like this:
here is her post:
Yesterday I ate:
BPC
one baked chix thigh with butter.
two tbsp chive-flavored cream cheese
Not enough food, I know, but if I eat more, I gain.
This happens with old ladies, you know.
She is 76 and just friggin’ starving herself to maintain her loss and it is the saddest darn ‘dieting’ post I have read in a long time…omg the crazy of it all. I read posts like this and just shake my head…it irks me people have to starve even on ‘an lc plan’ like she is. My 92 yr old mom eats more than this in a day 
ok I am rambling…all eating plans get bad mouthed, I just laugh and say whatever LOL I don’t explain anymore cause they ‘are not gonna give up their bread’ ya know HAHA and every food in moderation for all!! phooey
also people screw up plans easily…go low carb and don’t eat and starve, yea right…go keto plan and eat about 50-60 carbs and geez why is this plan not working…go carnivore for a week and cry you want keto cheesecake and miss your smoothie and can’t do it LOL Tons of reasons all plans get knocked out.
Shinita
#8
What.
Maybe the BPC contains lots of fat? I saw interesting stories but a warm-blooded big mammal like homo sapiens with its huge brain CAN’T live on the nearly nothing the rest is. There are limits.
WHY THE BPC, it makes no sense, why not food? And if she eats a modest amount of proper food and gains, her metabolism must be messed up epically and eating more sounds a good idea.
It was shocking to me and I saw things before… But this…
PaulL
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing)
#9
Long before the discovery of vitamin C, it was known that fresh meat prevented scurvy. The famous problem that the British Navy faced was that, after all the fresh meat was gone, the sailors’ diet became nothing but ship’s biscuit and salt beef. On a long voyage, that is a problem.
Lemons and limes are a lot easier to keep on board than livestock, and you can stock enough to last out a long deployment. It doesn’t hurt that you don’t have to clean up after citrus fruits, either. Over time, the anti-scorbutic properties of fresh meat receded from the forefront of people’s minds, as this practical solution to the storage problem became widespread. These days, refrigeration allows sailors to get meat that is fresh enough to prevent the problem.
ajbennett
(Jack Bennett)
#10
If a person is talking about this without knowing at least a little bit of the literature it’s easy to discount their opinion.
- “but cholesterol” … not an argument
- “but too much fat” … not an argument
- “but red meat gives you cancer” … not an argument
- “but fiber” … not an argument
All these arguments have been deconstructed via careful review of the literature by friendly low-carb and carnivore folks like Dr Paul Saladino or Zoe Harcombe among many others.
Carnivoor
(Vic)
#11
Its not perfect, nothing is, think things like parasites.
So yes, carnivore can be dangerous and unhealthy.
The question is where is it on the dangerous, safe scale? Comparing aples to aples, compared to vegan or sad diet.
The answer is obvious to me, but I’m a sceptic, can and love to be wrong.
In this case thou, dont think so, carnivore is not dangerous and unhealthy.
I realise that for every one of me there are 10.000 thinking otherwise, so scepticism on the subject is justified.
The future will tell, meanwhile I will do what I think is best for me and eat 2 pounds of meat a day.
I must admit, I don’t like the label carnivore, its to black and white. Nothing is, its all scales of gray.
I like the label ketovore. It discribes more what I am, not what I choose to do.
lfod14
#12
Whenever people said crap like that to me I’d go “really? what about it specifically? What part of it is dangerous” and then you get the deer in the headlights look. So then I’d always make sure to finish it off with something like "So you don’t actually know you’re just repeating things you heard from other people that had no clue then? Most of the time there was no response 
A guy on another forum I’m on has a great signature that I’d love to steal as my own
You are not entitled to your opinion.
You are entitled to your informed opinion.
No one is entitled to be ignorant.
Love it!
Fangs
#13
yea S I agree. It is amazing how many people ‘super diet’ for the scale ya know all the time ‘thinking they know what ‘low carb’ and plans like this’ are truly all about. Yea the BPC might contain alot of fat/butter? who knows what LOL but in the end, just reading that post made me very sad truly cause alot of people eat like this, til they can’t ya know…then they bail off plan eventually and can’t maintain a lifestyle of so little food intake. I don’t know anything else about this person tho with medical issues etc. so of course I just keep my mouth shut reading posts like this but it puts eating so little ‘as the fix’ when in reality it is the entire problem of truly not eating a healthy lifestyle menu. It is what it is out there I guess.
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#14
I gotta say that I’ve heard Dr. Saladino saying so many things that are basically ludicrous, I’ve stopped listening to him. For instance, he started eating raw honey. He used this to “prove” that carbs don’t cause insulin resistance. That’s complete hogwash. The BEST he could say is that eating his amount of honey FOR HIM does not appear to cause insulin resistance.
For covid, he did a podcast with someone where they agreed that covid would “cover every surface” on a ship. That’s completely unsupported by any scientific evidence, and furthermore, it’s not how ships work. They are not designed to allow a virus to completely inundate every surface. (If they were designed that way, what would happen if you hit something and water started entering the ship? Where would that water go? There have to be bulkheads to prevent water – and air – infiltration.) Granted, that was in the beginning of the pandemic, but it was ludicrous to me back then.
Zoe Harcombe hasn’t given the best advice about covid, either. But I’ll let her slide, since I’m less familiar with what she’s been saying lately.
Ellacosew
#15
Bob, I feel you on this.
Whilst I am living on red meat, coffee and water - I am actively avoiding reading or listening to the high profile carnivore “personalities” with something to sell.
(Something about Sean Baker particularly turns me off. And I am very wary of anything Mikaela and Jordan Peterson!)
The diet is absurdly simple, there isn’t much one needs beyond fatty meat and a good pan. And the research…the best of it was completed by pioneers in the mid-century. Many of their books are free online.
But we do need support!
I love the Carnivore community here. They never tried to convince me I needed a $1500 Otto Wilde grill or “ancestral supplements”.
Fangs
#17
I get it. I agree that alot of carnivore personalities go way beyond the simple of it and that destroys it for the simplicity of the plan and research behind the plan.
Nothing worse than a ‘rogue’ wanna experiment’ type carnivore wanting to ‘try honey’ and to me that is just the sugar addiction rearing its head but hidden under other forms of experimenting ‘with carnivore’ cause once ya eat honey or anything else then ya ain’t carnivore anymore LOL
alot of them did LC, Keto Plan, all the jazz etc. and feel they can now ‘plan jump’ and try all these explanations as to why and more at the whole time just warping out being committed kinda to any one plan.
They irk me and I agree @Ellacosew that Baker is one of the worst out there cause he allows his ‘world carnivore tribe’ site to run rampant with misinformation and all kinds of veggie eating and more and that irresponsibility just ticks me off to no end but also, at some point I just dismiss most of the personalities also and just keep those few in mind that ‘are carnivore’ and ‘do the plan’ as intended.
but there are so many personalities with their hands dirtied over 'their new and improved eating plans and experiments I guess. Alot of plan jumping out there and that isn’t right when a personality is based and plugs ‘a plan’ and then does something else, annoying as heck actually. Can’t count on many of them at all.
Precisely!
Rclause
(Scott)
#19
Dr. Paul saladino wants to sell you supliments to make carnivore perfect and then adds carbs back in to the diet. He lost me on that. I am almost at a year on (three months to go) my thirty day carnivore experiment now. I have done lipid panels and a CAC scan. I think the only thing left to do is to get a blood test to see if I am deficient in any vitamin or minerals. At that point I will say “let’s put our test data side by side and see who’s way of eating is better”
Fangs
#20
SUPER CONGRATS to you Scott on this!!!
great post!
oh also, a quick little reminder that ‘being lower’ on something and ‘not that deficient’ could easily be the normal a body requires ya know, like I am low in C and I feel fantastic…first word out of my Drs mouth is she said take a supp of C and I said nope. I don’t ‘need’ as much C as some ‘experts put in a table’ cause my body is not getting ‘processed chemical junky sugar fake foods’ at all and I had to put my faith in my plan and never looked back…so little things about minerals and vits that when ‘all in zc’ there is no ‘baseline’ on what is ‘deficient’ in what number ranges kinda thing…just a chat on it all LOL