I think that based upon research which shows clear correlations between protein intake and premature ageing as well as tumour growth that elevated intake of protein is not a long term solution.
Obviously there are many ways of doing an animal based or carnivore way of eating. As mentioned it’s possible to keep fat ratios high
Luckily we can agree to differ… I haven’t seen a lot of evidence for links between high protein and premature ageing and would currently go for Bikman over Rosedale. But hey who knows…
I’m happy with mainly meat eating with some offal included but not adding extra fat apart from what comes naturally and the cream in my coffee… we’ll have to see who goes first…!
Yes it’s true I think this is why it’s advised to eat fat until satiety.
I’ve recently been considering whether I actually need to retain all of my muscle mass. Other than aesthetics it only serves to drive a higher caloric requirement
The whole theory of calories in general is quite wobbly and the body is more than capable of telling us when we need to eat.
Thought it worthwhile to post this. I personally found this talk given by Barry fascinating.
It seems we are both talking about the same thing. I also don’t drink bulletproof coffee or add huge amounts of fat to my diet. I’m simply prioritising fatty cuts and limiting protein within a safe range
If you take a tea spoon of ghee and a tea spoon of coconut oil three or four times a day it will give you about 300 calories. In a tea spoon serving that should be easy for your body to handle.
The remaining 100 calories is about 200 grams of steak it will Also give you the required protein.
So the conclusion without literraly drinking fat, it is not possible to meet the macro. Nor such ratio exist in nature.
I am close to six months into carnivore. I felt either no different from keto, sometimes markedly worse, for the first four months straight. The only reason I stuck with it was stubbornness & how easy the WOE is.
Then the oddest thing: one afternoon I was standing at the oven preparing lunch & I noticed I felt good. Within the next hour I felt really good, then flat out amazing. Since then I’ve felt almost superhuman non-stop. It was really that sudden, like someone flipped a switch. Not saying carnivore is for everyone, but I do think benefits may take awhile to kick in for some.
I don’t care for that approach I’m afraid. 200g steak just isn’t enough at all.
People kept saying that about keto, but I’ve not experienced that kind of feeling. I’ve been carnivore since feb. Not really sure why tbh. It is easier, but in some ways because it’s such an outlier diet it’s not. Mentally it can be tough.
I would never show such disrespect to a good cut of meat as to char its surface. A good sear, yes; a “crispy blackened surface,” no. I dislike the taste of charcoal, whether it’s from meat or from vegetables.
Personally, I cook most of my vegetables, just as I cook most of my meat, so I have made a decision that if nobody thinks there is a problem with the far greater amount of nitrates in my veggies, I am not going to worry about the far lesser amount in my meat. Whether added or naturally present is irrelevant; “the dose makes the poison,” as the saying goes.
Not only that, but even poultry contains more nitrates than red meat, and we don’t worry that poultry causes cancer any more than we worry about vegetables. For these reasons, I hold with Georgia Ede that the notion that red meat causes cancer is the expression of a bias, not of a real, scientifically-based concern.
This remark intriques me. What is your difficulty with giving up plant foods? Giving up sugar and all sweets was dead easy, once I became willing to do so (though in the spirit of full disclosure, I am still getting sugar cravings), so I expect going full-on ZC/carnivore to be no more difficult. Cravings or no cravings, I don’t really miss sugar. The only part of me that does is my addictive brain. I would expect the same to obtain if I were to give up carbohydrate entirely.
So, to get back to my original question: do we have any science on how much the antinutrients within plants affect things like nutrient absorption. Oxalates bind to calcium, iirc, for example. Is this actually an issue in practice?
Your local butcher is likely cutting a lot of the fat off many cuts of meat (and possibly throwing it away). They do that as part of their service, and because most people don’t want the fat. If they are actually butchering in house and you can talk to them, you may be able to convince them to give you some cuts with more fat still on them (I believe others here have been able to do that, and yea, the cuts look different with the whole fat cap still on the steaks).
Aside from that though, I have some pre-packaged Salt Pork in my fridge that’s 40g fat and 4g protein per serving.
I don’t do ‘bulletproof’ coffee myself (or coffee in general), but putting a bit of butter or olive oil on my meats while or after cooking just seems proper to me, keto or not (just comes from how I’ve learned to cook I guess), to make it taste better anyway, and that adds a decent bit of fat on it’s own.
That’s not cooking in gallons of oil or drinking it down, honestly. It’s using a little bit at a couple meals.
Look at the link for the vegetable issue - not the cooking that is the problem, it is that the vegetable have anti-oxidants - preventing the problem from happening…
This whole article is eye-opening (same as linked earlier):
All organic compounds contain carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Some also contain nitrogen; namely, the amino acids that all proteins are made from. Proteins have a lifespan. For some, it is measured in years, for others, only minutes. When their time is up, proteins get disassembled back into amino acids, which are then re-used to make more proteins. Proteins also get damaged, and the damaged proteins also get taken apart.
For the most part, the body re-uses amino acids to make new proteins, but there is always a certain loss of nitrogen, because some amino acids get “deaminated,” and lose their nitrogen molecule. (Plus a few hydrogens; the name “amino” is derived from the word “ammonia,” the chemical formula for which is NH3.) This nitrogen gets converted into uric acid, and from there into urea, which is excreted in the urine (giving urine that ammonia smell).
There is always a certain minimum amount of deamination going on, which means that we must eat a certain amount of protein every day to make up the nitrogen loss. Estimates are that 0.6 g of protein per kg of lean body mass a day (I believe that’s the right figure) is required, simply to keep up with this ongoing loss. This is “nitrogen balance.” If you want to build more muscle tissue, or want to increase your bone density, or need protein for any other reason, you will need more protein than the minimum to achieve nitrogen balance.
I buy from a supermarket. My butcher is very expensive and doesn’t sell hig fat meat. I don’t know if he does cuts of fat though, i haven’t asked
On a ketogenic diet, the body has no need of external anti-oxidants, because it makes its own. I suspect that the body’s natural defenses against oxidation are more than capable of combating the lower nitrate content of meat, and that it is probably only the presence of those exogenous anti-oxidants that makes it possbile for us to eat plants in the first place. BTW, the body’s anti-oxidants are disabled by eating too much carbohydrate (because the high insulin turns on some genes that suppress the anti-oxidative mechanisms), so in that sense, I suppose meat could possibly be a danger to carb burners.
But I still believe that the danger of the nitrates in red meat is exaggerated, because the nitrates in poultry are not accompanied by anti-oxidants, either, yet no one claims that chicken causes cancer.
ETA: And chicken contains more nitrates/kilo than red meat, funnily enough.
I love carnivore eating. That’s the problem. I love it so much I can’t stop. Carnivore doesn’t fill me up before I’ve eaten way too many calories. After a month and 5 pounds of fat the problem ws getting worse not better. So back to the drawing board.
@charlie3 So I must conclude that ‘eating to satiety’ doesn’t work for everyone.
I ate keto for a bit over three years before switching to carnivore. Honestly I never got the energy so many people talk about getting from a LCHF woe. After the first few months with no change I didn’t expect it from carnivore either. It was a complete surprise but a welcome one.
Carnivore Heaven