Carnivore claims about plant foods

#144

Nah - the pot stays hot for hours and is still very warm in morning in a heated house. The broth is brought to a boil again before simmering again anyway.

Paleo-keto physician Dr. Sarah Myhill maintains a continual bone broth pot on her wood stove, topping it up with water & bones, the old way, very witchy. Wood stoves are allowed to die down to embers at night, then stoked and refueled in the morning. Main thing is to always bring the broth to a boil again before either serving or simmering more

(Omar) #145

lol

Even in a warm climate my mom used to let goat legs cook all night.

It was witchy for me. The view of legs in a pot and cook all night. A serial killer for a kid.

(G Whistler) #146

Your quote doesn’t say cooked meat causes nitrosamines, it says that’s created when green veg interacts with gastric juices. Did I miss something?

(G Whistler) #147

I don’t think people say you can eat unlimited. Amber O Hearn herself points out that protein is naturally limited by satiety. Dr Phinney’s own protein window, in respect of a “well formulated” keto diet, is quite wide. But 1g/kg lbm is just too low. Even including fat. On food that’s 50/50 fat/protein that would 1g/kg fat also. For me that would be less than 1000kcals a day if nothing else added (veg won’t make any appreciable difference for these macros)

(mole person) #148

This should read “some people on carnivore”. Their are lots of keto carnivores eating 80% fat and moderate protein. Some I can think of off the top of my head are Michaela Peterson and Amber O’Hearn. Also the entire therapeutic treatment of Paleo-Medicina is based around a strict high fat keto carnivore diet.

I personally have no faith in the long term healthfulness of any high protein diet, but am much less concerned about strict keto-carnivore. My own protein averages around 50 grams although it has a decent variance around that mean.

(Robert C) #149

You missed 2 things:

Nitrosamine production due to acidic gastric juices…

Second to last sentence, production of nitrosamines due to cooking…

(G Whistler) #150

You could still eat 80% fat and eat 2g/1kg lbm. You’d just be eating a lot of calories.

(G Whistler) #151

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

Is this an issue for all meat or just cured meats like bacon?

(Robert C) #152

It seems to be processed meats with a planned long shelf life - from that linked article:

I do not think “cured” is relevant - I have uncured bacon in my freezer that is labeled “No nitrates or nitrates added” but, it still has them because it has celery powder added (which is considered a flavoring instead of a chemical additive - a loophole). So, case-by-case on any processed meats.

(mole person) #153

@G_Whistler

The total amount of protein matters. They are trying to only eat the protein needs of the body to be in nitrogen balance. In general that is considered to be between .6 and 1 gram/kg lean weight. I think Paleo-Medicina keeps to the low end of this.

(bulkbiker) #154

What kind of food is that pray? do you mean by calories or by grams per 100g?

(Karim Wassef) #155

I will say that I’m trying very hard to eat high protein during my refeed days while vegan. I’m carnivore most of the year except for these two months in the spring.

I usually do 0.7g/ lb of lean mass ~ 100g. But since I’m cycling fasting and feasting, I’m targeting 180g and I weightlift heavily.

I only eat three times a week and my only real source of high protein is pea powder. It is very hard to get to 3000 calories with non-carb high protein vegetables and maintain my fat intake.

(G Whistler) #156

What does nitrogen balance mean?

(Rob Grantham) #157

Apologies yes my comment was quite blanketed. I was trying to point out that there are folks out there who have been misinformed that a few pounds of lean meat a day is health promoting.

(G Whistler) #158

For example, I eat ground beef that is 80% lean. It’s 50/50 because there’s 20g fat and 20g protein per 100g weight of meat

(Rob Grantham) #159

Protein and carbohydrate intake remains constant. Fat is calculated to make up the remainder of your daily requirement of energy. Once you have calculated you should be eating around the 160-200g Mark of fat. Hence the term high fat. Moderate protein. If weight loss is desired less fat is eaten and it comes from the body

(bulkbiker) #160

Misinformed? - you think it is deleterious to health?

(G Whistler) #161

I have no idea how you would find that much fat alongside that little amount of protein. That doesn’t exist in nature. Certainly not in my local butchers! That means you’d have to be cooking in gallons of oil and drinking it down. I don’t find that feasible nor appealing and I’m with the carnivore crowd on this one: they too don’t advocate such amounts.

I weight 66kg lean, that means 66g protein a day. That’s less than 300kcals. So you’re going to need about 1200 from fat alone for anything remotely reasonable (YMMV). That’s upwards of 130g fat. Not too bad, but again without sourcing it from food that means adding a lot. Others may disagree, but that’s not something that comes naturally to me. I don’t drink bulletproof drinks for instance.

I’m happy to be corrected on this

(Rob Grantham) #162

I think that based upon research which shows clear correlations between protein intake and premature ageing as well as tumour growth that elevated intake of protein is not a long term solution.

Obviously there are many ways of doing an animal based or carnivore way of eating. As mentioned it’s possible to keep fat ratios high

(bulkbiker) #163

Luckily we can agree to differ… I haven’t seen a lot of evidence for links between high protein and premature ageing and would currently go for Bikman over Rosedale. But hey who knows…
I’m happy with mainly meat eating with some offal included but not adding extra fat apart from what comes naturally and the cream in my coffee… we’ll have to see who goes first…!