Carnivore claims about plant foods

(G Whistler) #150

You could still eat 80% fat and eat 2g/1kg lbm. You’d just be eating a lot of calories.

(G Whistler) #151

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

Is this an issue for all meat or just cured meats like bacon?

(Robert C) #152

It seems to be processed meats with a planned long shelf life - from that linked article:

I do not think “cured” is relevant - I have uncured bacon in my freezer that is labeled “No nitrates or nitrates added” but, it still has them because it has celery powder added (which is considered a flavoring instead of a chemical additive - a loophole). So, case-by-case on any processed meats.

(mole person) #153

@G_Whistler

The total amount of protein matters. They are trying to only eat the protein needs of the body to be in nitrogen balance. In general that is considered to be between .6 and 1 gram/kg lean weight. I think Paleo-Medicina keeps to the low end of this.

(bulkbiker) #154

What kind of food is that pray? do you mean by calories or by grams per 100g?

(Karim Wassef) #155

I will say that I’m trying very hard to eat high protein during my refeed days while vegan. I’m carnivore most of the year except for these two months in the spring.

I usually do 0.7g/ lb of lean mass ~ 100g. But since I’m cycling fasting and feasting, I’m targeting 180g and I weightlift heavily.

I only eat three times a week and my only real source of high protein is pea powder. It is very hard to get to 3000 calories with non-carb high protein vegetables and maintain my fat intake.

(G Whistler) #156

What does nitrogen balance mean?

(Rob Grantham) #157

Apologies yes my comment was quite blanketed. I was trying to point out that there are folks out there who have been misinformed that a few pounds of lean meat a day is health promoting.

(G Whistler) #158

For example, I eat ground beef that is 80% lean. It’s 50/50 because there’s 20g fat and 20g protein per 100g weight of meat

(Rob Grantham) #159

Protein and carbohydrate intake remains constant. Fat is calculated to make up the remainder of your daily requirement of energy. Once you have calculated you should be eating around the 160-200g Mark of fat. Hence the term high fat. Moderate protein. If weight loss is desired less fat is eaten and it comes from the body

(bulkbiker) #160

Misinformed? - you think it is deleterious to health?

(G Whistler) #161

I have no idea how you would find that much fat alongside that little amount of protein. That doesn’t exist in nature. Certainly not in my local butchers! That means you’d have to be cooking in gallons of oil and drinking it down. I don’t find that feasible nor appealing and I’m with the carnivore crowd on this one: they too don’t advocate such amounts.

I weight 66kg lean, that means 66g protein a day. That’s less than 300kcals. So you’re going to need about 1200 from fat alone for anything remotely reasonable (YMMV). That’s upwards of 130g fat. Not too bad, but again without sourcing it from food that means adding a lot. Others may disagree, but that’s not something that comes naturally to me. I don’t drink bulletproof drinks for instance.

I’m happy to be corrected on this

(Rob Grantham) #162

I think that based upon research which shows clear correlations between protein intake and premature ageing as well as tumour growth that elevated intake of protein is not a long term solution.

Obviously there are many ways of doing an animal based or carnivore way of eating. As mentioned it’s possible to keep fat ratios high

(bulkbiker) #163

Luckily we can agree to differ… I haven’t seen a lot of evidence for links between high protein and premature ageing and would currently go for Bikman over Rosedale. But hey who knows…
I’m happy with mainly meat eating with some offal included but not adding extra fat apart from what comes naturally and the cream in my coffee… we’ll have to see who goes first…!

(Rob Grantham) #164

Yes it’s true I think this is why it’s advised to eat fat until satiety.

I’ve recently been considering whether I actually need to retain all of my muscle mass. Other than aesthetics it only serves to drive a higher caloric requirement

The whole theory of calories in general is quite wobbly and the body is more than capable of telling us when we need to eat.

(Rob Grantham) #165

Thought it worthwhile to post this. I personally found this talk given by Barry fascinating.

(Rob Grantham) #166

It seems we are both talking about the same thing. I also don’t drink bulletproof coffee or add huge amounts of fat to my diet. I’m simply prioritising fatty cuts and limiting protein within a safe range

(Omar) #167

If you take a tea spoon of ghee and a tea spoon of coconut oil three or four times a day it will give you about 300 calories. In a tea spoon serving that should be easy for your body to handle.

The remaining 100 calories is about 200 grams of steak it will Also give you the required protein.

So the conclusion without literraly drinking fat, it is not possible to meet the macro. Nor such ratio exist in nature.

(Tovan Nhsh) #168

I am close to six months into carnivore. I felt either no different from keto, sometimes markedly worse, for the first four months straight. The only reason I stuck with it was stubbornness & how easy the WOE is.

Then the oddest thing: one afternoon I was standing at the oven preparing lunch & I noticed I felt good. Within the next hour I felt really good, then flat out amazing. Since then I’ve felt almost superhuman non-stop. It was really that sudden, like someone flipped a switch. Not saying carnivore is for everyone, but I do think benefits may take awhile to kick in for some.

(G Whistler) #169

I don’t care for that approach I’m afraid. 200g steak just isn’t enough at all.