Carbs - 20g or 20%?


#1

Hi
I’m new to keto - jumped in yesterday. I’ve been doing reading/research into keto but one thing us puzzling me.
The ratios of fat:protein:carbs.
I’ve seen the carb limit been referred to as both a definite ‘weight’ as in between 5 and 20 grams and also as percentage as in 5 - 20 % of daily calorie intake.
I’m 50, 5’ 10" and very overweight (want to drop at least 4 dress sizes, whatever that equates to in lbs or kgs). I’m also doing this to be more healthy in general, to be fitter, more energetic, and hopefully ease my back and foot pain, as well as improving my mental health, but this g vs % thing has me confused.

Can anyone help please?


(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja ) #2

20 grams


(Carl Keller) #3

Hi Helen and welcome.

If you keep your carbs under 20 grams daily (I prefer net over total carbs) and eat moderate protein and fat to satiety, you will be on your way to healing and better health… and hopefully smaller dresses. :wink:

You can likely eat a higher number of carbs and still be successful but 20 is a really good number that works well for a lot of people and it still allows us to eat a fair amount of vegetables.


(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #4

Hi Carl, can you please explain “net carbs”? Does that mean total carbs - fiber?

Also … Hi Helen! Welcome!! :raising_hand_woman:‍♀


(Alex) #5

yep, at least for food labels in the united states, it does :+1:


(Victor Larsen) #6

I’ve been doing keto for aprox 8-9 months… started for a number of different reasons.

Better control of my blood glucose last a1c 4.9
Lose some weight down aprox 30 lbs now in my target range.
Deal with some pain issues: I have some sort of degenerative back problem my pain became chronic and got progressively worst I couldn’t train or swim I was taking a ton of over the counter pain killers (not good).

Anyway believe what they say about the diet helping with neuropathic stuff. My back pain steadily lessened I reduce pain killers was able to get back in the pool which helped speed my weight loss and further speed dropping my pain.

I now swim 3 times a week and moderately weight train 2 times a week.

I follow 70% fat 25% protein 5% carb
You need to figure out the number of calories you are going to do then apply the percentage to that.

Being diabetic I’m anal about the carbs I just won’t do starch based carbs as I’ve come to believe they were responsible most of what was probably inflammation in my system…

Good luck!


#7

“Net carbs” have gotten complicated these days. Three things to be concerned about:

  • Fiber. Most forms are not digestible, so they can generally be subtracted out.
  • Sugar alcohols vary in digestibility. Some, like erythritol, can be subtracted out completely. Others, like Xylitol and Maltitol, still have over 2 calories per gram, so should really only be half-subtracted.
  • Allulose. It’s a sugar, but has nearly no digestible component (1/10th that of sugar). But because it’s listed on nutritional labels as part of the carbohydrates, there’s no way to subtract it out. But most products using Allulose will state the net carbs on their packaging.

Also, be aware that most countries outside of the USA already subtract out non-digestible carbohydrates on their labels, so you would do no subtracting. That’s why you can sometimes find nutritional labels where there are more fiber grams than carbohydrate grams.


(Simon Saunders) #8

I stick to 150g of green veg (physical weight) 3x a day if I wish, then a couple of squares of dark chocolate for desert.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #9

Your carbohydrate tolerance is an absolute amount of carbohydrate. The carbohydrate you eat is chopped up into its component glucose molecules by your digestive system. This glucose gets shunted to your pancreas and liver by way of the portal vein. The pancreas senses the level of glucose in the bloodstream and, if necessary, secretes insulin to get it out of there (glucose above a certain minimal level can cause serious damage, even death). The insulin forces the muscle cells and the adipose tissue to absorb as much glucose as they can (the liver turns the glucose into fatty acids for storage in the adipose). As the muscle and fat cells reach capacity, they down-regulate their insulin receptors, the result being that it takes a higher level of insulin in the blood to force them to do their jobs. (This is called insulin resistance.) Chronically elevated insulin levels also cause damage throughout the body.

The cure is to avoid eating carbohydrate above the level that stimulates an excessive insulin response (we do need some insulin, or we will starve to death.) On the Ketogenic Forums, we recommend eating no more than 20 g/day of carbohydrate, because that is a limit low enough to get everyone into nutritional ketosis. (There are a few exceptionally insulin-resistant people who will need to eat even less carbohydrate than that.) Your carbohydrate tolerance may actually be higher than that, but a 20 g/day limit will get you into nutritional ketosis, and once you become fat-adapted (a state in which your muscles burn fatty acids for their energy, in preference to glucose—takes around six to eight weeks to get there), you can experiment to find what your actual carbohydrate threshold is.

Since we don’t know how many calories your body wants for healthy functioning, we prefer to express the limit in grams instead of as a percentage of calories. (Twenty grams of carbohydrate is 80 calories, and 80 calores is 5% of 1600, but only 4% of 2000.)


#10

The reason you want to stick to 20g net ( Carbs minus fiber) and not 20% is because the higher calorie intake one has, the higher their carbs would creep.

4 calories per gram of carb/protein and 9 calories per gram of fat. If someone had a 2000 calorie allotment with 20% of calories consisting of carbs, that would equate to 400 calories of carbs. 400 calories divided by 4= 100g of carbs, which would prevent most people from reaching nutritional ketosis.


(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #11

I just realized that chronometer has been subtracting fiber for me, and reporting out “net carbs”. Always nice when someone else does the work for me :slight_smile:


(Shaena Peterson) #12

When I started this woe July of last year, I downloaded an app, Stupid Simple Keto. Its food logs made it very simple to see my percentages; in fact, it shows a graph and in no time I’d figured out how to stay at 75-20-5. Only used it for a couple months, don’t need it anymore. Still strict Keto, lost 75 pounds between July and January, but the best part is how amazing I feel. All the time.


(Lorena) #13

Hi Shaena, Are these grams? Fat, carb, protein or fat, protein, carb? Sorry, I’m still trying to find the right mix for myself. I saw something on the Charlie Foundation that true keto was a 4:1. I can’t even figure out how to eat that way.
Thanks!


#14

Definitely 20 grams. Some will list 5% or whatever to go with a typical dieting regimes way of measuring things, and the more important part is usually the Fat to protein ratio on those. Regardless, that’s not the best way of considering carbs for nutritional ketosis, it’s just something that may happen to work out to the right numbers for a particular case.

The best way to help this sink in is to realize you can be on 100% carbs and still be in Ketosis, if that 100% happens to be under 20 grams or so (you are essentially fasting and for whatever reason eating 20 grams of pure carbohydrate, this is just an illustration). The ratio isn’t important, it’s the presence of enough carbs to trigger your body to use them in a complex system (your body won’t necessarily just pick which macro it has more of).


#15

I think it’s percent 75% fat 20% protein and 5% carb


(Pete A) #16

I do 20 gross carbs which nets out usually between 10-15 (for what its worth, but everyone is different as has been said).

Keeping under 20 seems to allow my calories, fat, protein to land around 65-70% fat, 25 protein give or take. And allow some wiggle room.

Good luck you sound excited! :grin:


#17

for keto it is generally recommended at the definite value of 20g, of which you can play with in the future for yourself to see when your insulin response is triggered. as @PaulL mentioned, your n=1 may allow you to do more carbs eventually; but nutritionally speaking, a majority of humanity will hit nutritional ketosis at 20g or less.
i am guessing that the 20% value may work for low carb tracking (since that is over 50% less than many governmental dietary guides).


#18

Thank you, guys.

I love this - different people replying with basically the same answer, but each saying it in a different way and each improving my understanding of the complex working of the human body and keto :sunglasses: :hugs:


(Shaena Peterson) #19

Keto Macro is percentage of calories - “Generally, the macronutrient ratio varies within the following ranges: 60-75% of calories from fat (or even more), 15-30% of calories from protein, and. 5-10% of calories from carbs.”

Here’s a site discussing the app I used. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/stupid-simple-keto-diet-app/id960574905?mt=8

For me it was easier to track daily food with “Stupid Simple Keto” on my phone. Just load quantities and it did the breakdown. After a few months I knew what do do. Quit using the app months ago. It’ll get easier for you, now I can’t imagine eating any other way.


(Sue Kitchell) #20

I started off with the app, My Fitness Pal but then ended up with Cronometer. Both are the paid premium versions. I probably switched because Cronometer calculates the net carbs already and it syncs with my Fitbit. The only thing that I do not like is that you can only add one food group to your food diary at once. With that reason, I decided to go back to My Fitness Pal app because it is easier and quicker to add multiple foods to your food diary at once. I paid for the premium on both apps so I wanted to try the MyFitness Pal app again. So far, so good. No big deal to subtract the fiber to get the net carbs. My Fitbit app is installed to My Fitness Pal but I have not been able to get it to sync at all with my MyFitness Pal app. So the verdict is still out which app I prefer.