Cannot get fat adapted :(((

[csrss]

I’m sorry keto didn’t work for you but you can’t say you didn’t give it a through trial.

Yep, I did.

My brain works better on ketones and I have a technical job in a specialized computer field where I have to find solutions when I am not attending online meetings. It obviously doesn’t work that way for you.

Thanks for sharing your experience! This give hope that and I really would like to be wrong about mine

And I wouldn’t classify 70g as “all those carbs”

For me - thats a lot. I haven’t had that many carbs per day for … hmmm… for about half of the year, so yeah, for me thats a lot. I meant of course net carbs - in total I had probably about 100 or maybe more.

So the problem shifts to fat utilization/adaptation.

Exactly. I am very confused about that because once I had those episodes - that would mean, that ketones where finally metabolized / used by a brain, and by muscles as well - because the energy level was consistent through the whole body and very high. And then I am out feeling bad again and that makes me consider inability for ketolysis. So yeah, who knows

So, checked my blood now again and appears I am back into ketosis:
Serum levels: 1.4 mmol
Urine levels: 1.5 mmol
Haven’t checked glucose but thats probably irrelevant.
At this point feeling pretty normal. Still no issues with hunger - however it is a bit more noticeable and not that responsive to “go away” command. No considerable weight gain while consuming about 4000 kcal. Normally I do 2-2.5k.

if you revert to carbs/sugar you will not fix it. You will in fact just make it worse.

This is something I am very very very considered about. Definitely I wanted to fix this situation. Yeah, well, it appears I am still keto for now plus I know with how many carbs I can cheat now, so yeah, will try to apply slow gradual approach and as well try not to lose my job hahah

[Janie]

. I meant of course net carbs - in total I had probably about 100 or maybe more.

Still nowhere NEAR the SAD diet. My husband regularly eats 100 g of carbs and has not gained weight or had his joint pain coming back. But he was a lot stricter the first year - but not as strict as me LOL. He was only overweight by about 10 lbs and is a man burning more fuel with his muscles so he can get away with it.

Everyone has their own “limit” of where they can be in ketosis most of the time. Yours may be higher and why you feel so crappy at lower levels of carbs.

I wouldn’t blame you for giving up after all you have been through but you could try eating more carbs (not sugar) in the form of real vegetables such as potatoes and find your own level without feeling so bad but not continuing to damage your system with fructose.

[csrss]

Still nowhere NEAR the SAD diet. My husband regularly eats 100 g of carbs and has not gained weight or had his joint pain coming back. But he was a lot stricter the first year - but not as strict as me LOL. He was only overweight by about 10 lbs and is a man burning more fuel with his muscles so he can get away with it.

I wouldn’t blame you for giving up after all you have been through but you could try eating more carbs (not sugar) in the form of real vegetables such as potatoes and find your own level without feeling so bad but not continuing to damage your system with fructose.

Nah, I am pushing it forward No carbs today, having my ups and downs, just can’t give up yet - need to see how far I can push myself. Except for this crappy feeling, I see many benefits already, good changes and happy with them - I was never able to achieve them even on low carb and now those are a great achievements for me. I really do not want to go back, trust me. Having all those issues again, etc. I will push myself as far as I can, still standing

The low carb diet (I don’t mean keto) is very hard, especially while having overeating tendencies. The line is so thin, you think, ah, one candy or whatever sugar, doesn’t make a difference. Then some chips, then let’s have a pizza, then you are not even hungry but who cares it feels so good and eventually you end up doing tons of food and back again at the starting point. But everything has its price and for every cycle you pay with a bit of health and its not unlimited. Nooo, I don’t want this anymore, I just don’t, I can’t afford it anymore. This is my motivation

[Corals]

I’m afraid I’m like you.

I’ve been in the keto WOE for over 1 year, very strict. Then I’ve tried carnivore WOE for a few months. It didn’t solve my problem. I’ve been sportive my whole life and after cutting the carbs, I’ve been so weak! I’ve tried everything people suggested: high salt, eating more fat, 0 carbs, electrolytes (and I hate giving my money to Big Supplement).

Now I’m traveling by bicycle and I was weak to the point of falling on the road, with cramps on my belly and chest and arms that got me on the ground, crying in pain wondering if I was having a heart attack.

So, now I’m on this solitary vacation, it was just not possible.

I’ve switched to high carb, not as a normal SAD, but rather for the standards of someone coming from carnivore, and all problems are solved. Instantaneously!

I think I must be one of the unicorns who are poor on mitochondria and just won’t fat adapt. I’ve experienced none of the benefits people on keto WOE report. I like the food, though.

Unfortunately, the moment my trip is over, I’ll go back to keto and feeling miserable and without energy.

Edit: post was too long and I’ve trimmed it.

[csrss]

Yeah, well, I think there are a lot more people like us. I am not yet sure if I am that utterly broken or not - hard to tell after a month and hearing that it takes time for fat adaptation- from 1 to 3 months? From 3 to 6 months? 5-9 weeks? Hard to tell with all those versions
Anyways, thats it - there are way more people, who just cannot use fat / ketones for energy. They just remain undiscovered because they never try to fat adapt. We are adapting to the environment, - if you are not using muscles you don’t have them, easy as that. I never exercised in my life until the age of 37 - imaging this. I spent last 17 years in a chair - uni, then job. I never had any muscle mass. I am working out now for months and unable to build any even small muscles.
Yeah, it is hard to admit losing, but some fights cannot be won. Should we be discouraged and give up? I was thinking today, that hell no. There will always be a winning protocol - we just have to discover it. If we are designated to get energy from glucose only, that means the organism is able to stay healthy and operate on glucose - its just a good protocol is needed. BTW, take a look, how keto protocol is strict - if we would be that strict on glucose, we would never be overweight or ill or anything.
As I have written earlier, in case of my personal experience with “proper ketosis” - for me, energy / performance wise it is almost the same if you stay at BG 70 for days and then go to 110, but with good insulin sensitivity. Feeling like you’re high.
If I will fail here, I’ll win elsewhere. So yeah, stay positive

[amwassil]

@csrss @Corals

Here’s the study DeLauer talks about:

[Shinita]

The low carb diet (I don’t mean keto) is very hard, especially while having overeating tendencies.

It was the easiest woe ever for me, with very serious overeating tendencies, I still have them, they just very week at extreme low-carb.
But… I didn’t only have a carb limit…

The line is so thin, you think, ah, one candy or whatever sugar, doesn’t make a difference. Then some chips, then let’s have a pizza

When I went low-carb, I was close to paleo (I actually went paleo first but quit after a month and seriously reduced my carbs. still stayed very close for a long time). So no added sugar, no grains, no potatoes or dry legumes. I worked well with such limitations from day 1, it was super easy and high-carb immediately became way harder, actually impossible longer term. I must be lucky but it really matters how strict you are. If I start to allow problematic things, that usually doesn’t end well, I step on the slippery slope… The right amount of strictness makes little wonders. But I need my little allowances too. Not everyone is like that, some people should be super strict for the best result.

I am working out now for months and unable to build any even small muscles.

Coinsidering you didn’t eat properly, not even a decent amount of protein, no wonder…

[csrss]

@amwassil
Watched all the latest videos from Thomas, this one as well.

@Shinita
Yeah, that was strict. I had it all except for sugar, candies etc. But including chips, pizza on weekends. But anyways, that was your protocol and it worked for you so thats it, this is great!

[anon94382398]

The heart issues sound like nitric oxide deficiency due to arginine deficiency.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nitric+oxide+deficiency+symptoms

Have you tried in shell hazelnuts/ walnuts/pecans or a fermented arginine supplement?

Non fermented supplemental arginine is derived from duck feathers.

[NinMD]

Cola flavored soda water sounds great, what brand is that? Whatever you’re showing in the pan smothered with cheese looks incredible!

[Alliet91]

2 questions, how are you finding the time to cook good nutritious meals when you’re working CONSTANTLY? Surely you are doing dirty keto?

Have you not considered that you would be tired working CONSTANTLY on ANY diet?

Actually 3 questions. How the hell is it legal for you to work that much?

[amwassil]

I buy plain soda water and add flavours. As an experiment I used a bottle of SodaStream Diet Cola flavour and a bottle of SodaStream Diet Root Beer flavour. Both are sweetened with sucralose and the root beer has Stevia in addition. I did not care for ‘sweet’ nor the metallic aftertaste, so the two were the totality of my experiment. I’m trying to find alternatives without the sweeteners. So far, I’ve used pure vanilla extract. I like it but it’s very expensive, so I don’t think it’s a long term solution. There are a few other extracts I want to try that aren’t as expensive. I’ve also used unsweetened lemon juice and lime juice. I preferred the lime juice but it has carbs. Maybe I can find another brand that does not.

[csrss]

I am always preparing food for the whole week. I am a contractor so I can work as much as I want / can.

Anyways, small update. So previously, my reading where ketones 3.3, blood glucose 70, ketones in urine LARGE.

At some point I was sitting in a chair with a feeling that my head is going to implode or explode - hard to tell, it felt like I am really on the edge of something. But I kept pushing. At some point I have started to feel normal again and so far I feel this way.
I did tests of course and guess what.

Urine ketones zero, blood ketones zero, blood glucose - 100. I am eating the same as I was while in ketosis. I added even more fat, and imagine this - every time I have fat, I can just take some pure fat and eat it, I feel rapid energy increase, my ketones are zero and my glucose is rising to those crazy levels I have never had in my life - I always was a low sugar person.

Last time I have checked my glucose 7 hours after eating - it was 100, while my post meal glucose is always around 86-88.

So I am fat adapted but making glucose out of fats? I don’t even know what is going on anymore.

[anon94382398]

You’re fat adapted and your mitochondria is burning fatty acids straight away as fuel. The glycerol backbone from the triglycerides is being converted into glucose. Your blood sugar levels are normal.

I stand or lay down as much as possible to avoid those brain blood sugar crashes from sitting/standing and vice versa.

[Corals]

Oh, dear. 15 days “study”?

What happened to them after 1 year?

I don’t care what happens to my body during 15 days. Or 1 month. How will it be after 1 year? 3 years? 10?

Besides, 12 obese subjects… why so little? Who do they represent? Not me. I’ve never been obese.

[Corals]

Glucose isn’t the only thing that can make you ill. Living beings aren’t that simple.

[Corals]

While on keto, I did eat pecans. Not when I was carnivore, though. Now I’m not either, and feeling great. But I’ll go back to very low carbs soon and we’ll see.

[PaulL]

My criticism of the study is that the amount of carbohydrate in the diet was high enough to have potentially kept some of them out of ketosis, and as you rightly point out, fifteen days is far too short a time to adapt to metabolising fatty acids in any case.

Just one correction (forgive me): there were twelve lean subjects in the control arm, and ten obese subjects in the treatment arm, so N = 22.

[Camellia]

Hello, I am sorry to hear about all your challenges, but it sounds like you have very exhaustively experimented with the keto diet, and discovered you actually do well at a higher carb level than <20g. There are lots of us around. This doesn’t mean we can’t take all the excellent lessons from a ketogenic WOE, even if we’re not regularly in ketosis - plenty of fats, not skimping on protein, being keenly aware of how insulin affects cravings and appetite, enjoying a natural drop in hunger and sleepiness, embracing previously maligned foods like butter, bacon and steak, eschewing bread, pasta, potatoes and all the other starchy fillers we previously thought we couldn’t live without.

Have you considered experimenting with a break from all the data-gathering, testing and introspection, and just eating foods you enjoy, at the carb level that you think is most likely to make you feel good, and trusting the feedback from your body? I know that’s much easier said than done, but maybe it would be the kindest thing to do for yourself especially given the other stressors you are currently facing (long work hours etc).

My impression is that anyone who appreciates the science and respects the basic tenets of ketogenic living is welcome on this forum, even if their own WOE has taken a slight departure from the recommended principles.

Good luck!

[Camellia]

PS. Don’t forget to occasionally congratulate yourself for all you have achieved - huge weight loss, and more importantly a transformation from someone who lived on processed food, booze and cigarettes. That’s awesome. Not everyone manages that, in fact many sadly never even try.