Can you be Keto and get really fat?

(Prancing Pony) #41

Thank you for answering about the keytones and tracking. I’ve noticed some weight slowly coming back on despite all the tracking and being in ketosis and thought it was just me! Proof as you say that we are all unique and need unique answers.

(Richard Amaro) #42

Yes, It’s possible! Just follow instructiosn on how to make a plan on your Keto Diet :slight_smile:

(Bunny) #43

In my opinion you could be in ketosis and you might randomly burn body fat and you could be eating a high carb diet and you might randomly burn body fat. Either way you could store fat then burn it over and over again in the fatty acid turnover pool so it would appear your not doing anything and creep onto the side of gaining?

Insulin might store glucose as body fat or help burn it before the excess glucose is stored!

Too much reliance on information derived about insulin and glucagon is the problem because insulin and glucagon is only co-factor in lipolysis.

It almost seems like the goal is getting the body to produce more adrenaline (HPA -axis activation), but is that what actually burns body fat?

If you can scare the body into survival mode by starving it or some how stimulate the components that makeup adrenaline?

I’m still examining the research on this (truly mind boggling stuff).


[1] Vascular and metapbolic effects of adrenaline in adipose tissue in type 2 diabetes: “… Capillaries in the adipose tissue are recruited by adrenaline in non-T2DM subjects; however, this response is impaired in overweight T2DM subjects. NEFA, released in adipose tissue during adrenaline stimulation, is insufficiently re-esterified in situ in overweight T2DM subjects, probably owing to increased ATBF after adrenaline infusion and inability to increase adipose tissue glucose uptake.

[2] Effects of epinephrine, corticotropin, and thyrotropin on lipolysis and glucose oxidation in rat adipose tissue

[3] Effect of pH on epinephrine-induced lipolysis in isolated fat cells

[4] Lipolysis in adipocytes is under tight hormonal control. Catecholamines interacting with β-adrenergic receptors stimulate lipolysis and insulin counters this to suppress lipolysis (Holm et al. 2000). NAFLD patients exhibit an inability for insulin to suppress peripheral lipolysis, contributing to increased FFA in the circulation (Sanyal et al. 2001). In vivo stable isotope studies in NAFLD patients also suggest that inappropriate lipolysis in adipose tissue contributes to the triglycerideaccumulated within the liver (Donnelly et al. 2005). While no data are available from humans with ALD, in animal models chronic ethanol feeding results in a dysregulation of lipolysis in adipose tissue. Chronic ethanol impairs the ability of insulin to suppress adipose lipolysis, resulting in a decrease in the rate of glycerol appearance into the circulation (Kang et al. 2007a). This insulin resistance is observed both in adipocytes isolated from ethanol-fed rats and in vivo under the controlled conditions of a hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp (Kang et al. 2007a). In studies using 2H2O as a tracer, the rate of triglyceride turnover in epididymal adipose tissue was increased after ethanol feeding (Kang et al. 2007a). Chronic ethanol feeding increased triglyceride degradation by 2.3-fold compared to pair-fed rats, but had no effect on triglyceride synthesis (Kang et al. 2007a). Taken together, these data indicate that a profound dysregulation of lipolysis in adipose tissue likely contributes to the progression of hepatic steatosis in both NAFLD and ALD.
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Hi Prancing…
I hope this is somewhat helpful. Perhaps not, because I have not gained weight, but I did plateau for a while.
I would have not been able to be successful at Keto without guidance, directly, from an expert. There is a retired doctor in my area who is a pioneer in keto research and development. The man runs a free clinic. I realize that not all people have access like this. But here’s my point:
I have found there are many variations in the keto diet. I have also found that many people say they are on keto but they are not. The evidence is that there is no weight loss, nor improvement of health.
While it is true that the diet needs to be tweaked here and there according to individual needs, the tweaking is minimal.
I stopped loosing weight because I was exceeding the limit on both fat intake and carbs. It is interesting, but I can easily ‘fudge’ on explicit directions to suit my ‘wants’! Before keto, I used to eat a large amount of salads. Upon starting keto, I had to cut that down to one cup a day (this keto plan has 2 phases. the first phase is pretty strict. when you finally loose the required weight, you go to phase 2…the lifestyle. it works, my friend). I measure everything. So I took a measuring cup, put the greens into it…and took my hand and compressed it down and proceeded to fill that ‘cup’ with more! Girl, it is very easy to fool yourself!! That’s what I did. And I was going overboard on the fat intake. There are limits.
Give yourself time to adjust to this lifestyle. Try to think about all the foods you can have rather than what you can not. Keto is a challenge. It is not easy. My primary reason for starting keto was for arthritic pain with terrific headaches. I was about 30 lbs overweight. The decrease in inflammation keto affords has lessened the pain, and the bonus was the weight loss.
I hope to have given you some encouragement.
Reach out to an expert - one to one - face to face with an initial consultation, then keep in contact.
Forums are helpful, but they are unable to replace guidance from a person who has many years of education, direct experience in the health care of individuals, education, and promotion.

(Raj Seth) #46

I hit a low of 210 in May '18, then, through 14 months of hard core keto, got up to 239 by July '19.
As for properly obese - I have been obese the entire time :rofl:
My issues have been eating when not hungry, over eating, nuts, keto desserts and diet soda. More recently, I have discovered that artificial sweeteners allow me to really really overeat - I guess the sweet taste tricks the system even when its not sugar. Additionally, it is really easy for me to eat large amounts of macadamia nuts, home roasted pecans and nut butter. I do realize that these have higher carbs.
At no time did I carb-up or raise the daily carb limit.

My personal discoveries - I can NOT overeat if pure carnivore.
To overeat I have to have - nuts or nut butter, sweet foods like keto cheesecake, rebel ice-cream, diet soda, tomato sauce (pizza topping), and the like. Mindless eating while couch potato-ing and watching TV is a major achilles heel.
All of these are habit issues, and I am now addressing them.

I am 220 now, and hoping to get to one-derland within the next few months.

(Patricia) #47

I’ve been stalled for a looonnng time now and my weight has started to creep up again. I never did lose all that I wanted in the first place, so this is disturbing. I know I’m eating a lot, but it’s because I find I am hungry quite often. This didn’t happen when I first started keto. I’m so afraid of giving up and eating whatever again. The reason I started keto and stuck with it for 3+ years is that I was never hungry. Now I am, and that is frustrating. I am not good at fasting (I really get hungry!), but I am trying to restrict my eating to a 10-hour window. I’m sure it doesn’t help that I’m an old gal and have messed up my body by decades of dieting.

(Patricia) #48

If I could do away with all those foods, I wouldn’t have a problem in the first place. It’s hard enough to do keto without giving up nuts, artificial sweeteners, etc. If that’s what I need to do, I’m not sure I can keep it up.

Does anyone find that caffeine increases appetite? I’ve heard that it does. That’s all I need is to have to give up coffee. Ugh.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #49


I’ve heard the opposite but it’s clearly individual. Coffein does absolutely nothing with my appetite, hunger, energy but it surely affects many other people.

Oh yes, nuts, sweeteners, my beloved chocolate… I couldn’t give them up until I ate too much carbs (vegetables on keto…) but without vegetables, it became ridiculously easy, I stopped desiring them. Giving up vegetables took years though… Sometimes we should be patiently waiting for the easy way, no research and experiment is enough.

About the main question… It’s clearly individual. As you’ve read here, some people able to gain a lot of fat on keto. Eating a lot on keto isn’t hard for some of us especially when we use not satiating food. In my case, adding some carbs makes overeating way easier. I think I can’t easily overeat on carnivore even if I wanted but on keto, it’s different. Even a small amount of carbs make me hungrier, messes with my appetite and keto sweets work differently than some eggs and meat, even if they are super low-carb.
But I usually maintain on keto, fortunately. Some people gain fat if not careful - and some people starve on keto because they can’t eat enough. Satiation is so tricky and highly individual, I can’t say a single thing true for everyone. Of course, satiation is just one factor, it doesn’t keep everyone of us from eating much more…
So, it’s possible to get fat on keto. Probably using often criticized food (sweets, fat bombs, huge amounts of heavy cream or even more pure fat in the coffee) or just insane amounts and it’s surely rare compared to a carby diet.

(Sheri Knauer) #51

Jimmy never went back to carbs. His weight gain was due to stress, which can be a major factor in putting on weight.

(Justin Jordan) #52

I don’t think Jimmy went back to carbs. I DO think Jimmy has psychological issues with food (because, barring certain genetic disorders, I don’t think you get to 200 plus pounds overweight without them) that eventually overwhelm any kind of physiological effect. He’s unwilling to count calories, so he’s eventually adapting to and overwhelming anything he tries.

I am sympathetic, because left to my own devices I will eat ANYTHING until I’m stuffed to the gills. I maintained a 280 pound (and obese) body on beef and cheese. I can’t out low carb or out keto that - I need to conscious of how much I’m eating. Last week, for instance, I put away 5000 odd calories worth of nuts and chicken in a hour. And that’s something I know from hard experience I could do daily.

Which with Jimmy, he’s gotten a pattern, going back to right after he first lost weight on low carb, constantly trying to (unconsciously I believe) game the system. The first go round it was frankenfoods, and then he’d argued they were fine, and then…well, there’s been a lot of and thens.

Hormones matter, but they’re not the only thing that matters for at least some of us.

(PJ) #53

My weight varies a great deal, because I go on and off keto, and for a couple years had medications messing with my glucose that I was unaware of. I can gain weight if I try but I have to eat about 50 net carbs a day and about 2300 calories to start slowly; increasing either number makes it raise faster. If I am about 40 carbs a day and 1800 calories, or anywhere up to the first number, I generally maintain my high weight. If I am less than 40 carbs a day, and up to about 2200 calories, I will lose weight; more weight if either let alone both numbers are lower.

I think anybody can eat too many carbs or too many calories for whatever their activity level and metabolic rate will support, if they try, or even just ignore it. But even the smallest attention on my part to eating lowcarb (<40ecc for me) and not too crazy on calories, and I don’t gain. I’m menopausal though, and long term high weight, so it’s probably easier for me to gain than some others.

People with thyroid issues can gain even on hard keto. I had a friend who had become lean, strong, and gained weight, turned out she had hashimoto’s, it was really tough on her, until she got it under control. So it’s not impossible to gain weight on keto but it likely indicates some larger physiological problem.


(mole person) #54

This isn’t correct. In fact very little of the fat balance of our bodies is the result of de novo lipogenesis, or glucose to fat. It’s under 5%. Almost all the fat in our fat tissue comes from dietary fat. It’s just that it’s the carbohydrates in our diet that leads to higher insulin and the subsequent increased storage of that fat.

But everything we eat causes insulin production. It’s definitely possible to eat enough fat and protein to gain weight.

“In animals and humans, fatty acids are predominantly stored in adipose tissue as triglyceride. Most fatty acids in adipose tissue are obtained from dietary fat.”

(Patricia) #55

Ah, yes, I have lost about 55 pounds (recently gained a few back) and have 20-30 more to go. I’m not trying to get back to my teenage or early twenties weight, either, just a comfortable place. A word to the wise for all you youngsters - try to do this while you are young, because I have a problem with sagging skin that is not going back and it’s really difficult when choosing what to wear. It’s also harder to lose weight when you are older. Wish I had discovered keto 45 years ago. Oh well… better late than never.

(Patricia) #56

I admire your discipline. Yes, eating only meat, eggs, a little cheese and veggies sometimes is no doubt the best way to go, but easier said than done for many of us. We were designed for eating to be pleasurable as well as filling, so it’s hard to go on such a plain regimen. I know it’s the best thing to do, but everybody wants some “fun” stuff in their diet. I know, I know, being healthy is better than fun, but fun is, well… fun. :grin:


I am a hedonist especially regarding food. Meat, eggs, cheese and very little veggies sounds the most fun way to eat to me, actually. I do that now, except cheese and my veggies are practically spices, my meat is very limited too (I barely started this but my diet is typically limited and I always enjoyed the hell out of it. I enjoyed my fat fast too though that was very short :D). I like my food but if I will eat my little cheese again, that will be awesome! Nothing can be better than these. Yesterday I ate eggs. It was good (but I won’t do that often, I do like variety). Today I ate beef and barely anything else. It was huge fun. Eggs, meat and cheese and spices, condiments, it’s already huge variety even if we can’t get/afford zillion types of meat and cheese.
I understand it’s not enjoyable for everyone, our tastes are different, of course and I came a long way myself, very slowly (I was a huge vegetable fan for more than 4 decades but people change) but these are about the best tasting things I can eat and they have the wonderful benefit that I don’t want my snacks I am normally addicted to. Not a single day passed without chocolate and peanuts before or it was super rare. But I don’t feel the slightest desire towards them now. My food is better and when I don’t eat much carbs (like I always did on keto before), I don’t fancy everything I see and normally eat. It’s a big relief. I enjoy until it lasts, I don’t know what future brings but extreme low-carb is my way (most of the time, at least), I can’t help that. But I’m creative if it’s about enjoying food anyway. I don’t need it often with these amazing ingredients. I am lucky to enjoy 9-10/10 meals very nearly every time. My SO eats anything he wants and can afford and find healthy enough and his numbers are way lower. It’s individual.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #58

I didn’t start like this. I slowly cleaned up because things changed along the way. I really enjoy my food and can be quite creative with it. I cooked and baked professionally most of my life. The fact is that I eat sweet stuff so seldom now that I don’t bother with substitutes. My favorite things have changed and everybody’s can if given a chance. Our perception of what’s enjoyable can change. I really don’t love that stuff like I used to anymore. I ate some tiramisu at a Christmas party. I didn’t enjoy it like I did before. It’s a process. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #59


@Tulip It’s only hard if you make it so. Yes, it requires an attitude adjustment. Yes, if your attitude to food includes craving, addiction and/or psychological need the adjustment may be difficult. But many have been there, done that and adjusted successfully. We all started with SAD. We all had fave foods that were unhealthy or killing us slowly. Losing them was not giving up something. Each choice was simply moving an obstacle out of the way to good health and life. Eating healthy and well is more fun. As David says, “these are my favorite things” can change for the better. :slightly_smiling_face:


Wow. I like Jimmy. But that’s a clear bit of maths.

These days with doctors and coaches having data feedback instantly via the internet from telemetric scales, heart rate monitors, pedometers, blood pressure monitors and continuous glucose monitor, maybe Jimmy (when I say Jimmy, I also mean me) could get instant counselling when data goes the unexpected way.


Ketosis is at the same end of the spectrum as autophagy. Anytime we eat… Ketosis and autophagy stop. So the very tight neuronal connections break off when we choose not to eat during times of stress. It’s painful. This gives the neurons the opportunity to make new connections where we don’t feel hunger when we’re stressed.

What I have noticed in the past is that electronic screens with flicker… PWM(pulse width modulation) cause oxidative stress in my eyes and raise my cortisol levels… Making me feel hunger.

Music messes with our neurochemicals by raising them and later they crash without music. Making us feel hunger. This occurs with many people who go to the grocery store… They get their mind raped by the music and then go home to stuff their faces. Vicious cycles.

I highly recommend finding everything that is messing with your biology and throw it out.

Ketosis is the non domesticated metabolism.