this is very true. We agree on alot more then you probly think. all im saying is that alot of us do need to look at calorie consumption. I am most defiantly not saying its all that matters but i do believe its a piece of the puzzle. Even in your fuel analogy you are obviously tracking how much you put in to determine the 400 miles. I bet most people track calories and just dont really realize it. I am not really over weight by much. within 20 lb from where i would like to be and not t2d so my journy is different then some but its also the same as others. I try to stay keto but am not perfect. Thats where most would say that that is my biggest problem not the calories. Maybe they would be right or maybe wrong. what i do know is when i am solid keto and in full ketosis(Blood meter testing) I have to watch how much I eat or the needle doesnt move. Its not just about the scale number that im talking about. You know the feeling like you either lost a little or gained a little but the scale says the same. Kinda rambling here but my point is that some of us need a deficit in order to drop the last weight(in my opinion). and if your wondering i am at 210lb and would like to get to around 190.
Can we please stop repeating the “You have to eat at a deficit to lose weight on KETO” lie?
I just watched this and it addresses what is being debated here with regards to deficit, weight loss, and calories.
It ties all the bits I knew together in a meaningful way.
I respect Dr. Fung tremendously. I have 2 of his books and I’ve read them. I just find it very difficult to listen to him because he says ‘right?’ so many times. It’s like nails on a blackboard to me.
I hear you and I respond… 
So, I’ve stripped a transcript of this video via Youtube (I admit, not elegant formatting, more like a long run-on sentence) but, in doing so, I have replaced the word “right” with ‘r’ throughout.
And so now, although ‘r’ appears a lot, I find it more entertaining than annoying when seen with this little transformation.
Besides, I find it’s a lot faster to read a transcript than watching a video (even on accelerated speed), so this becomes a faster way to consume Dr Fung’s valuable content (at least for folks who absorb things better this way).
More enjoyable, right? See attached: Fung-Rightless.pdf (134.5 KB)
Another comment, most if not all of the studies were done on people eating a high carb diet. I wonder it would come out differently if the studies were done on people doing a ketogenic diet.
To which studies are you referring? It might be worse with the restriction/loss/regain pattern on a carbohydrate diet but I believe the same mechanism will work against you intentionally restricting any nutritional program and trying to manipulate your metabolism in that way. It works till it doesn’t and you’ve trashed your metabolism and are hungry all the time till you eat more and start regaining. We’re built that way. Keeping insulin lower and ramping up your metabolism is the secret hack of KETO, not restriction of food.
Some of the studies I see being referred to don’t state the diet macros, so my assumption was that they are the standard American diet.
I know that Dr. Bekman has proven that protein doesn’t raise insulin on a keto diet to the extent that it does on SAD and that the glucagon:insulin ratio doesn’t change at all when someone in ketosis eats protein. So I wondered if that carries over to other things that have been studied.
I’m not saying that the conventional wisdom is wrong, I’m just wondering.
My new “low carb” GP Dr. in Australia is still concerned about my cholesterol results. He has advised against eating saturated fats and to eat more mono-saturated fats. I questioned him about that interpretation and advice and was disappointed as he explained that elevated cholesterol is linked to heart disease. I explained I was on a ketogenic diet and shouldn’t we expect a variation of blood results from the “normal” values based on ranges for a population eating a higher carbohydrate diet. I thought we were going to talk about genetic testing for APOE4. He went on to talk about avoiding added sugar and processed foods, but healthy whole grains, fruits and vegetables were important to reduce my cholesterol. I recognised he was not a keto-friendly doctor and that “low carb” doctor can mean many things in marketing a medical practice. This new doc has a Scottish accent, as an interesting aside. We had a long consult as I questioned his platform and he sits somewhere between low-fat wholefood diet and paleo. He was nice enough, but not a good choice, even if he is on the Low Carb Australia web page.
I liked my country town GP, before my move to the city for a new job. He is middle aged and overweight and has a good sense of humour. He advised I would kill myself with a high fat diet and did recommend statins at a blood test. But over time he saw me getting healthier as his health got worse. I became a fascinating experiment as I would turn up every few months for blood tests to monitor my expected demise. We discussed blood markers and diet. He would order blood tests like fasting insulin saying that he usually would not run that. Then we would go over the bio-markers and I could witness realisation dawning. Over the 2 years I was his patient, we had a good relationship. He trimmed down when he went low carb. So, I guess, in the end he was a low carb doctor.
I have spoken with Dr. Demasi directly over her statin reporting and how that turned the mainstream medical establishment against her. She is eloquent and very intelligent. Also she is quite down to Earth in replying to an email from a complete stranger in a polite and open manner.
The thing about Dr. Norman Swan, is not the inaccuracy with which he reports the low carb diets, it’s not his personal bias toward the Mediterranean diet, it is that he is a trusted source of information on a national, generally trusted media outlet (if one is a bit socialist). If Dr. Swan was just in his own practice, fine and fair enough. If he was a social media influencer with an obvious profit motive and supplements and products to spruik, we could cut him a bit of slack for his biases. But he is employed by the public purse in a purported public health science communicator role. And that is why he requires the extra scrutiny. The situation is more about politics and mass media manipulation than actual health reporting and education. I have family and friends who will contact me from their passive trusting media soaked lives to update me that a real doctor says that the keto diet is not good. Even if I point out that the expert he interviewed is a vegan with an agenda, the trust those people close to me (and whom I care about) is with Dr. Swan. (see other forum topics about how people can’t hear the message from someone close to them).
Yes, Dr. Paul Mason is a very good communicator. His presentation on the low carb approach to skin cancer and sunburn was good. I do catch his YouTube clips. Totally agree with you.
Dr. Rhonda Patrick explains to Joe Rogan that ketogenic eaters (and carnivores) eventually just start to eat less. The diets are forms of fasting mimicking diets as studied by Valter Longo. By eating less, people eat less calories. This is the understood mechanism for weight loss on the list of diets that she links this mechanism to.
Except of course when they don’t…
Check out the Wittrock and Feldman over feeding experiments.
Dr Rhonda has many things back to front…
I obviously type Dave Feldman’s name to much as Sam Feltham turned into Feldman
Jason Wittrock did 3 weeks of almost daily videos when he did his 4k calories daily over feeding experiment… I’ll let you find them on his channel
First one here
These sorts of experiments are fascinating, because they clearly demonstrate the body’s ability to cope with varied inputs.
Gary Taubes also mentions one of the early studies involving an ad libitum low-carbohydrate diet, in which one of the participants was eating 3000 calories a day when all the others were eating far less, and yet he lost just as much weight as the other guys. The name of the study never seems to stick in my mind, but there’s a reference to it in Good Calories, Bad Calories.
The Jason Wittrock experiment shows Jason Wittrock’s ability to cope with varied inputs. But he is in fairly good shape and still somewhat young. My guess is if Kirk Douglas tried the same experiment today the results wouldn’t be as impressive. While the idea of overeating our way to crazy high metabolism and vitality is appealing the practicality of it varies quite a bit.
Politics and diet don’t mix. I have no interest in a diet with an emotional or political based reasoning. I won’t put up with anyone who hints at a vegan agenda. Or with anyone selling keto related food products or supplements because their focus is on cash flow. Most of my family probably think I am a bit crazy with my diet, they see and like the results but when I tell them grains and fruit are poor food choices they just say okay but eat them anyways. I guess I really don’t care what they think, I’ll be saddened attending their early funerals.