Can anyone tell me what this is trying to say?


(Bob M) #1

I’ve read this twice:

Any ideas on what he’s trying to say? Is it just one big ad for his program?


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2

Maybe just this:

The bottom line

  • Lower and stable blood sugar and insulin levels are a sign of good metabolic health, but managing the symptoms with a high-fat diet does not lead to metabolic health.
  • The fundamental problem is not insulin toxicity . It’s energy toxicity .
  • When you eat, rather than focusing on avoiding short term blood sugar and insulin spikes, you should focus on higher satiety nutrient-dense food that will reduce your cravings and allow you to lose body fat.

Seems to me keeping carbs sub-20 grams per day and staying consistently in ketosis ‘lowers and stabilizes BS and insulin’ (point 1); eating to satiety matches energy intake to energy output (point 2); and, eating nutrient-dense foods (rather than nutritionally dilute carb crap?) is good for you (point 3).

The CGI data that I’ve posted on this forum shows what I think he defines as ‘healthy’. You would be hard pressed to determine my meal times from the daily glucose plots. I find it hard to believe that if you’re eating consistently keto you’re going to get ‘glucose spikes’. So I don’t know why he’s lumping keto in with eating in a manner that does so.

I may reread when I have more time to digest more fully. Maybe there’s something here. Maybe not.


(UsedToBeT2D) #3

My confirmation bias is keto helped me lose 45 pounds. I am near normal weight after 8 months, after being clinically obese for 20 years, and all my T2 diabetes markers are now normal. My blood pressure is 110/70. I am off all medications for diabetes and high blood pressure. KCKO!
p.s. I feel great. 46 inch waist to 36. I keep buying smaller clothes. But I may fall over dead tomorrow. At least I’ll need a smaller box.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #4

I have no idea what he’s trying to say. The article is somewhat incoherent, and reads as though it had been written in haste and not re-read later. I wasn’t able to finish it.

A couple of questions: Is a high-fat diet the same thing as a ketogenic diet? It seems to me that the salient feature of a well-formulated ketogenic diet is the lack of carbohydrate, not the abundance of fat. Also, why does Mr. Kendall think that a stable glucose level is a bad thing? He’s not advocating swinging between hyperglycaemia and hypoglycaemia, surely?


#5

I think (and I may be way off) he is making the point that adding a lot of fat to your diet may indeed keep your blood sugar levels steady/flat but it won’t necessarily help you lose weight and/or aid in repair of metabolic damage.


(Bunny) #6

“…As you will see below, it’s not that stable blood sugars or a low carb diet is a bad thing. However, eating a high-fat diet to achieve stable blood sugars is nothing more than symptom management. Switching carbs for refined fat and avoiding protein definitely won’t make you lean and metabolically healthy, and may make things worse! …”…More

I agree!

Bottom line in what he is looking at is what I have been practicing for years (I learned this from Marty) and that is:

Pre-Prandial Glucose (tells you when to eat) matters more than Post-Prandial Glucose ===> it works itself out on the post-prandial end long-term.

Postprandial end: How long it takes for a volume of insulin (basal-bolus insulin dosing[1]) to clear glucose to normal levels?

I also learned this from Marty:

image

That’s how much fat I eat. (…if you really want to burn body fat?)

Footnotes:

[1] Session 1. Introduction to Dr. Bernstein’s Diabetes University


#7

Well not having read it but knowing who wrote it I know what the bias will be! Cut the fat fattys. Am I right? This is why I avoid pages where people like him reside. There is more than one way to lose body fat and sometimes (shocker) that is to eat more fat à la KetoAF. Sometime it is to lower fat and bump up protein. Sometimes it may even be to eat more carbs. Moral of the story is - there is no one way to get the results you want.


#8

Many people have combined fasting with a high fat keto diet in an attempt to achieve stable blood sugars in the hope of weight loss. But sadly, in spite of their herculean feats of self-deprivation, they just continue to gain weight due to a low satiety nutrient-poor diet that leaves them craving and eating more when the fast is over.

Unfortunately, many people who believe that fat is a free food because it does not raise insulin levels end up overeating refined fat to maintain stable blood sugar levels. Before long, this leads to fat gain and worsening insulin resistance.

Sadly, there are plenty of keto gurus and their die-hard believers who continue to gain weight because they are trying to optimise the wrong numbers!

We believe what you eat after you fast is critical to achieving any long term benefit from your sacrifice during your fasting. Unfortunately, many fasting proponents, with their fear of the short term insulin response to food actually cause their followers to consume low satiety, energy-dense nutrient-poor foods that leave them in a constant binge/restrict cycle.

Now, from what I am getting from this…LOL… is people are checking glucose after eating and being driven by that number. He says that number is not worth looking at…it is your number before you eat which should determine how you eat and then you ‘time your intermittent’ fasting with that number. In other words if your glucose is high when waking, don’t eat…high blood sugar when waking means you are in a ‘trigger hunger point’ and should fast then. When number goes lower you ‘are allowed to eat’ and it should all put ya in some ‘personal data driven intermittent meal time plan’ that suits you personally…of course ya gotta buy the info and steps to ‘his plan’…and of course all your worries and life troubles on your health will be over for good :wink:

So this is ‘improving IF’ and why you should follow his set up about a personal IF plan for you and how your glucose numbers before you eat will determine when ya eat??? or something like that LOL

yea I think a few reads again are needed for sure on this one. But in the end it is ‘an ad’ for his program but there might be bits in there?? Like you, maybe, maybe not?? HA


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #9

If you follow some of his links,he goes way off into nutrient density and pushes a plant based rather than animal based diet.

I have a feeling that is what you will get if you pay for his plan…

P.S.
Can you say " Joel Furhman " ?


(Bob M) #10

Thanks for those comments. I was wondering if maybe I was crazy.

When the headline is that we shouldn’t aim for stable blood sugar levels, but then he goes into a discussion of T1 diabetics and how a low carb diet has helped them…by giving them stable blood sugar levels, I couldn’t tell what was happening.

And that post from Ted Naiman about “energy toxicity” – I saw that on Twitter. That fits in with the high P:E (high protein:energy) concept, but I find it hard to believe that “energy” is “toxic”. And unfortunately, the “E” is both carbs and fat, so is it the carbs that are “toxic” or the fat or both?

To me, this is CICO.

Maybe he’s trying to get us to eat less fat, but to “prove” this concept, he uses this chart:

So, the thing that’s really dangerous because it has carbs and fat is…milk? I haven’t had milk by itself in 30+ years. And what are all the other “products”?

Could you show a meal with 70% fat? Or a steak? And what if you don’t eat many or any carbs with the meal? What then happens to insulin?

And I literally have no idea what this is trying to say:

Assuming this is morning blood sugar, it’s remarkably flat (way too flat) in some regions…when weight goes way up then down again. This appears to contradict his statement (I think he’s saying, anyway) that eating with a lower blood glucose is better for some reason.

I understand most of his other posts (though I disagree with a lot of what he says), but this one seems particularly tough to decipher.


(Bunny) #11

I don’t think it is quite so biased Dr. Ted Naiman was finding the same-thing (over-eating-fat) in his patients that’s why they could not get their blood sugars down?

I do think it is possible for some people to do and whether or not their diabetic could be a factor also.

I suppose if your not over-weight or trying to lose some body fat or keep a stable weight eating more fat would be a good thing and beneficial to health.

Even Virta Health encourages eating more fat when goals are reached but not in the beginning?

And also Virta Health has whole list of dietary fats if one or a combination of dietary fats don’t work for one person it will work for another.

We are all at certain stages of our journey to find what works the best and like you said KetoAF is a reason and there is no one way.

I found that Marty is pretty good at hitting the nail on the head and he dearly loves his wife who is diabetic and I don’t think he is going to lead her or anybody else astray and he is also good friends with Dr. Phinney who has eaten dinner at his house on occasions.


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #12

What were they eating along with the fat?
Fat alone will not raise blood sugar…


(Bunny) #13

As Dr. Naiman states in that same article also, his personal theory is protein to fat ratios?


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #14

Ingested protein does not raise blood sugar either…


(Bob M) #15

I don’t think he says anything about blood sugar. His theory is that too much fat is bad because it’s “energy” and he likes higher protein.

But then he weighs the same now as what he weighed as a vegetarian. He never gained 90+ pounds, as I did. He’s also a ripped man who lifts to failure.

Will his ideas work on a post-menopausal woman who doesn’t exercise? Will it work on someone (like me) who has permanently damaged his metabolism?

While I like eating higher protein, I don’t think that eating fat with it props up insulin in any way. And I keep my carbs low enough most days that carbs aren’t affecting insulin.

And I’m hesitant to say that I will suddenly gain weight if I eat ranch dressing with my wings instead of wings or – heaven forbid! – chicken breast without the skin.


(Ideom) #16

Exactly!! Right away he goes for ‘half-truths’ and the like.


(Bunny) #17

If you have enough stomach acid and digestive enzymes to digest it, senior folks may not have to worry about over eating protein, they need just enough glucose from it to help get the insulin break on to turn off glucagon and get enough protein to prevent muscle from being lost.

And another concern in geriatrics is the rawness of the meat not being fully digested to prevent breakdown of muscle tissue.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #18

Since fat and sugar are quite distinct, chemically speaking, eating fat won’t raise blood sugar, except under unusual circumstances. We know that gluconeogenesis from a protein substrate is pretty tightly regulated, so it would make sense that gluconeogenesis from a fatty-acid substrate would be tightly regulated, too.


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #19

Google is our friend.

Any information I can find about elevated BG involves carbohydrates.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #20

To talk about fat turning into sugar and thus making us fat, by being converted back into fat to be stored, is absurd. If the body’s going to store it anyway, why waste energy on the double conversion? Moreover, discussions like this always seem to ignore the body’s ability to adjust to whatever we give it. Our metabolic rate is highly variable, there are processes such as mitochondrial uncoupling, and energy can even be excreted, for heaven’s sake.