Best tasting, cheapest, totally keto soda you can buy ☺️

(Kristen Ann) #13

Yes I have lots of “personal evidence” that poultry is inflammatory. But I wouldn’t recommend avoiding poultry to the normal person lol.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #14

Love me some dead bird too :slight_smile:

(Robert C) #15

I think that may have helped - remember this is a public forum.

Your title and original post are pretty positive on this stuff.

Without support you are putting sucralose in high regard.

Maybe mentioning “Although controversial - I find it tasty and it does not cause me issues” or something?

You did mention you’ve read up on artificial sweeteners so, I doubt that you would recommend sucralose for 5 year old children. Just about any mention of sucralose being something to look into would be good.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #16

I don’t have kids, and so I really have not ever looked into, or considered any possible risks of artificial sweeteners with kids. So I wouldn’t recommend them one way or the other. But if I had to guess, Id say they are no more dangerous for kids than they are adults.

(Robert C) #17

While I agree it has a risk of being dangerous for both - it is likely more dangerous for children.

Malnutrition, alcohol, cigarettes, unsafe drinking water etc. affect the growing body differently than a full grown adult. I think the same would be true of artificial sweeteners.

I personally would never recommend any artificial sweeteners for children.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #18

Probably smart. But I also would not recommend loads of sugar and crappy processed garbage for kids either. Especially if it were in their genetics to be overweight, and not active…

(Full Metal KETO AF) #19

Sugar and artificial sweeteners are both unnecessary. The concept of sweet treats is leftover psychological addiction to sugar. Conquering it is the next step after quitting carbs and sugar as significant food sources on keto. Being enthusiastic and proud of dirty keto is a compromise to your health purely based on hedonistic pleasure over food as sustenance, saving a little cash, and being a bit lazy seeking out healthy choices. There is a huge difference between organic and not, wild caught vs. farm raised, processed and manufactured vs. natural real foods, and concocted keto “treats” over good meat and vegetables. I’m not perfect and the lines blur for me occasionally but not as a lifestyle choice thinking the only thing that matters is limiting carbs and loosing weight. I will drink a diet soda now and then on the rare occasion I eat out, I buy some vegetables non organic because some are way worse than others for pesticide residue. I eat wild caught salmon only because farm raised salmon are fed antibiotics, and a grain heavy diet. Wild salmon feed on other fish and that’s where the high omega3 fatty acid content in salmon comes from, they don’t manufacture it in their bodies and that’s the whole point of including fatty fish in your diet. Sure it might taste the same but what happens in your body has nothing to do with taste. Dirty keto is a compromise at best, not a superior way to go Chris. Oat bran and flax meal breads are high in estrogen, not good for an aging male. I buy locally farmed organic vegetables, usually cheaper for many of them than at a place like Safeway paying for conventional produce. Things I will buy not organic are cauliflower, avocados, broccoli, cabbage and a couple others. Things I avoid are tomatoes, peppers, strawberries and lettuces as they have large amounts of multiple pesticide residues, up to 15 really toxic ones on peppers and strawberries, some of the worst offenders. I know you think it’s futile to try and keep all the chemicals out of your body, but taking control of the worst stuff can go a long ways I believe. Apathy about food choices isn’t the answer and the quest for improving your health is paramount for everyone who wants to live a longer life. You have to fight for that and not let the crap bury you sooner than necessary. Keto works because it heals your body. You could be keto drinking Wesson oil, protein powder and white sugar if the macros are correct you will be in ketosis and loosing weight. That doesn’t make it healthy. That’s an extreme example granted but it makes the point clear that there is a lot more going on than “If it fits my macros and I loose weight that’s what counts”.

Sucralose is 600 X as sweet as sugar, Acesulfame potassium is 200 X as sweet as sugar, that’s why they are in tiny amounts. Artificial sweeteners are combined to try to closer resemble the taste of sucrose because none of them are perfect replacements for the taste of sugar. The small amounts don’t mean they are less harmful, just that they are 100s of times more sweet on the palate and potent chemicals. Is sucralose gross tasting if you put a teaspoon of it in your mouth? They are chemicals, not foods. We will continue to try and educate you and hopefully you do some real analysis rather just being guided by your taste buds and scale results. I won’t quit telling you because I do care about a brother Chris. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #20

Everything you have said sounds good on paper, but in reality, I’ve lost weight, feel great, and totally enjoying the food I eat more now than I did before Keto. It’s been a win, win for me.

Might I end up with cancer, or some other hideous disease ? Sure, but it’s not a lot more likely than you, or anyone else here… Except maybe for my exposure to a close relative of agent orange many years ago. Kind of surprised I haven’t already developed cancer… But that experience is just one more thing that tells me how random and unpredictable cancer (and other terrible life altering diseases) really are. Sometimes even the people that you would think should get it, don’t, while health freaks do. Just makes no sense.

(Robert C) #21

George Burns drank alcohol and smoked and lived to be over 100 years of age

So, with this counter example, I have proved that we are all equally likely to die of cancer, regardless of whether we drink or smoke

That is the logic being used - but we know that drinking alcohol and smoking definitely make cancer a lot more likely:

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/diet-physical-activity/alcohol-use-and-cancer.html
https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/lung/basic_info/risk_factors.htm

Also found this on cancer and artificial sweeteners:

Just keep in mind, the first few years of alcohol feel great - the first few months of cocaine feel great - the first few weeks of meth feel great…

#22

THAT’S what matters! Many people are afraid of artificial sweeteners or almost anything that provokes any type of insulin response. I was like that at one point myself. Couple years of keto I gave up on being afraid of a lot of stuff and doing much better now.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #23

But those are all addictions which have nothing to do with diet, at least directly.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #24

Alcoholism is a whole different thing, and cigarettes one of the very few things actually proven to greatly increase ones odds of getting cancer. That kind of proof simply does not exist for use of artificial sweeteners.

(Robert C) #25

Let me fix that:
That kind of proof simply does not YET exist for use of currently available artificial sweeteners.

Proof may never exist but it may exist within a very few years for any given artificial sweetener encouraging negative health outcomes (people are not doing all of the studies out of boredom - they definitely suspect issues based on animal models).

Where there is smoke - most people think their might be fire (I think you think BBQ :grinning:).

@FishChris - I really do not want to appear to be a troll. I just want people moving to Keto to take on both the macro breakdown and hormonal response details but, to also recognize the safety (lowered risk) and benefits of sticking with real whole foods.

#26

Have you tried Virgils Root Beer? Is sweetened with erythritol, monk fruit and stevia. Great root beer flavor, but is very sweet. I have to water it down. Found it at Walmart. And even there is not cheap.
Also comes in other flavors, such as cola and cream soda.

(Jeremy Wheatley) #27

Personally I really like Coke Zero and it doesn’t have any effect on my glucoses readings and doesn’t throw me out of ketosis so that means I can have one with my lunch once in awhile with no worries…

(Diane) #28

There is a reason I mostly don’t tell people here what I do and do not eat. I don’t want other people weighing in on what are, for me, personal choices. I find others absolutism sometimes off-putting. I might end up in the same camp, maybe… eventually… I’m certainly not there yet with regards to what sometimes comes across as zealotry (as heart-felt and well intentioned as it always seems to be) to me.

(mole person) #29

I actually never recommend to people who are happy with their rate of weight loss that they should abandon their sweetners. I only suggest it as something to try when people who are using them complain of a stall or are having troubles with cravings and/or straying.

The strong response to @FishChris isn’t about his personal use, it’s about his sucralose evangelism and promotion when all the available scientific evidence points in the opposite direction.

We know that non nutritive sweetners stall a fair number of people; so whenever I see a thread where someone is making a completely erroneous claim like “sucralose doesn’t raise insulin”, or “there is no evidence that sweetners affect weight loss” I feel that these errors need to be corrected for the sake of people who may naively believe the claims.

I do exactly the same thing when I see forum members saying without qualifications that high protein is fine on a ketogenic diet. It’s not fine for lots of people which is why almost every keto doctor will recommend considering your protein amounts if you hit a stall. They do the same thing with artificial sweeteners.

The pushback in this case is to someone claiming that the evidence is vague, which it isn’t, and that it’s only a “psychological” effect when people find that sucralose is stalling them (which is what @FishChris has claimed over multiple threads).

(Rebecca ) #30

Ditto! I work in an independent health food store and we sell A LOT of Virgils soda! I like to have the cola as a very occasional treat. It has a very good flavor and no aftertaste…at least that I notice.

(Marianne) #31

Wow; thank you! I drink only water, salt water and one cup of coffee per day. Sure would love a soda from time to time. We can have this?

(Robert C) #32

In terms of Keto - these are unlikely to move you out of ketosis - but, as with all artificial sweeteners - carry risk…