Ben Bikman - reduce dietary salt too much and insulin rises

(Megan) #1

(6) Dr. Ben Bikman: Controlling Insulin for Fat Loss, How to Break a Fast, and Stop Eating Chicken!! - YouTube

28 mins

(the whole video is a good watch)

(Bob M) #2

Stop eating chicken?


I have huge respect for Ben Bikman. He has influenced me to eat more ruminant and especially organ meat. But stop eating chicken? No, that’s a step too far for me :grin:

(Bacon enough and time) #4

Did any of you watch the video? The title is clickbait. Bikman’s reasons for thinking beef is better for us than chicken make sense, if you listen to the whole discussion.

(Bob M) #5

I’m listening to it. I had to convert into mp3, then get my podcast player to recognize it.

I think he’s wrong about the chicken, at least the way I eat it. His whole point about fat always being with protein is wrong, for instance. When I was testing high fat, low protein with a CGM, I ate shrimp and mussels. Both are very high protein, very low fat. Is there some fat? Yes. Is it a lot? No. Only about 15% calories from fat from shrimp.

I also like eating chicken breast now, and get satiety from it.

So, for this part of the discussion, I think he’s wrong, at least as to the aspect of chicken = high protein and eating high protein without fat is bad.

I’m almost done, and the rest of it seems to be great.

(Bob M) #6

Also disagree with his thoughts on drinking (raw) milk. I’ve been drinking raw milk lately and losing weight. Now, I don’t drink much, but I drink it every day I’m not fasting.

(Bacon enough and time) #7

So you don’t think much of his argument that the fat helps us digest the protein better? I don’t know enough to be able to judge that point.

(Bob M) #8

That also I don’t know enough. And I wonder how much fat one needs?

He also implied it was better for muscle building (forget the term he used) with fat.

But I know that I can eat lean meats all the time with zero digestive issues, such as ham. Whether there’s enough fat in ham to mitigate whatever he thinks too low fat will cause, I’m not sure. Or I could still be having a negative effect, and just don’t realize it.

I will note that lately I’ve been adding A2 cheeses to my lean meats, for my lunches anyway. I’ve been doing that only to add additional calories (keeping meat to one pound), but it seems to decrease hunger. But I’ve also been testing boron, which may also have that effect.

I was bummed that >10 for insulin he thinks is bad. I’m usually around 10 when I get it tested. Not sure how to get it to go lower (and I’ve reached the lowest weight in 20+ years while having it at that level).


Maybe Ben Bikman would say that you need to eat more fat? :laughing:

(Bob M) #10

Or potentially fast more?

I’m not sure. Another conversation might be in order.

I’ve heard others give some number for “fasting” insulin, and say if you’re above that number, you’re “insulin resistant”. The problem is, they never tell you what to do after that.

I’ve been on low carb/keto since 1/1/14, so it can’t be eating near zero carbs, since I’ve done that for years. I’ve fasted many, many 36+, 4-5.5 day fasts. Currently am attempting a 36 hour fast. Eat 2MAD 99% of the time. All of my meals are keto, except when I do a TKD on the days I lift. And then, it’s only the meal after I lift.

I’ve tried eating higher fat first, as recommended by Amber O’Hearn, but I can’t find a fat to eat. Suet made me nauseous. I can eat as much butter as you want me to eat, but eating it first sickens me just thinking about it. I don’t like pork fat, too mushy and smells bad to me. What other fat is there? Beef fat, but I don’t know where to get that.

And I’ve tried high fat many, many times. No satiety, just more calories.

Not sure what else there is to do.

(Bob M) #11

I should say that the rest of his talk was excellent. I agree with him 100% about calories, and did not know that higher insulin = burning fewer calories. His discussion of salt I thought was appropriate.

I’m in agreement with him on those people eating honey – if you’re insulin sensitive, and you want to do this, go for it. But there is NO reason to eat honey and if you’re insulin resistant, it’s better to not eat honey.

And I like the whole discussion about people calling low carb folk “physiologically insulin resistant” being bogus. You will get a higher blood glucose if you eat carbs initially, but it’s because you’re carb insensitive, not insulin resistant. You don’t have a stored supply of insulin ready to go. But if you eat carbs, the second time you eat them, you do.

(Edith) #12

You can download interview as a podcast. You don’t have to watch it on youtube.

I found it very interesting about low sodium causing insulin to increase in order to make the body retain the sodium. So, it seems that even if you are keeping your carb intake low, you can still have higher insulin if your sodium intake is not enough.


I found it hard to listen to, but that means nothing!-
I was being distracted by a pup and the TV etc.

I’m at 18 mins.

So far so goodish. Obviously the Doc knows what he’s talking about, and can back it up.

Yeah, good.

(Diana) #14

Omg now I have to go listen to this….


I’ve a steak to cook, lol.
Thank the creator


I find the physiology of salt regulation and it’s effects on insulin very interesting. I add salt to taste for meals. I also enjoy a salty beef bone broth as a hot drink - it tastes great. It interests me to see carnivore people working hard to not add salt to their meals. It may be a reason for increased fasting blood insulin in carnivore people.

Naively I like to think in my opinion that if added salt to a meal improves the taste then there may be a biological mechanism behind that sensed improvement of flavour.

(Bacon enough and time) #17

I think this is in imitation of some long-term carnivores who, over time, found themselves adding less and less salt to their food. But those long-termers all say they didn’t set out to restrict or eliminate salt, they just stopped wanting it and feel fine without it. My take on that is that any carnivore who wants to use salt and enjoys putting it on food probably should do so.


I have book-marked where the discussion turns to salt at 28 minutes. The link (below) should take you straight there.

@MeganNZ Yes, I agree, the whole presentation is worth taking in. Thanks for sharing it :slightly_smiling_face:

(Diana) #19

But this goes back to my original questions/thoughts. Why would carnivores be okay without salt and do just fine but not those on keto? The difference in carbs is small for those of us following strict keto with <20g total carbs. It’s just odd to me…what am I missing?

I have upped my salt slightly this week.

(Michael) #20

I did not add salt on keto nor carnivore and feel fine. Perhaps it is more person dependent than diet dependent, or maybe people are being overly influenced by others?

EDIT: I do salt thymus always actually, and somehow forget that I do