Ben Bikman - reduce dietary salt too much and insulin rises

(Bob M) #21

I think there are too many variables. I just got back from jogging 3.3 miles, and lost enough water that I got dizzy while standing. I MUST have more salt. Felt much better after drinking a ton of water and drinking olive brine.


I use the same amount of salt on keto, carnivore and every other diet except maybe the differences between the food amounts. I typically eat less as I lower carbs so I suppose the salt may go down but not by much.
But I did notice that I am more fine with less salt on my meat as more time passes close to carnivore. The salt on my roasts dropped significantly and I tolerate salty food less and less. 1.5% salt is fine but it starts to get problematic above it. I have problems with certain cheeses, meat products due to that. And I don’t talk the very common 7+ % salt smoked pork here (I think 7% is legal but 10% happens…? whatever, it’s WAY above my tolerance. even if I add much unsalted food to it, the salt interferes)… That level was serious even before but I bought those items and I hardly dare to do it now. Maybe for tiny slices with my big scrambled eggs…?
Bacon is way too salty. But I don’t really like it anyway so it’s fine. And I can handle 1-2 crispy rashers (some of the salt leaves it with the lard) especially if I don’t eat it alone. It’s variety once in a blue moon and it’s not bad, per se, just too expensive for me, too fatty and not really needed and processed too. I prefer fresh pork and sausages :slight_smile: Okay, sausages are best made by myself as they aren’t too fatty, rich and salty that way but they are still neat when I just buy them. I just need to eat them with something else. And I like eating stuff all alone.

Maybe the carnivores who don’t use salt weren’t big salters on keto either…? I don’t understand what would make the huge difference and we know some carnivores need pretty much salt…

I am a bit curious what will happens when I go carnivore(-ish, I see zero point in doing it super strict in my case but I lose items quite quickly so it may happen naturally) longer term… But it would be very troublesome to want no salt as I already have some important items I find a bit too salty. They aren’t my staples but still, they are needed for variety and joy.
And I already have problems with very eggy (my fav kind) desserts. I often feel them too salty. Indeed, eggs have lots of sodium naturally. I never salted the vast majority of desserts despite recipes always said it’s oh so important because even a tiny bit ruined them for me but now even my yolks oversalt them…? Sigh. And it’s probably more pronounced when I have my carni desserts as they don’t have sweeteners that could mask the salty flavor.
I am getting more sensitive anyway. Salt and sugar/sweetness alike. Sometimes I can’t enjoy a slice of cucumber because it’s too sweet… And on my carnivore-ish, summer has its raw vegs in moderation occasionally.
I handle fruits better as they should be sweet (and sour! that’s even more important, usually :)) but I have problems when my meat dishes or vegs (anything not dessert) are too sweet. But most fruits are too sweet too, yes.

Interestingly, I don’t need more salt even when I drink a ton of water. Or if I don’t eat for days (it never happens nowadays but it did a few times before). I am a human so if I had no sodium for 3 days while I would drink a ton of water and sweat outside a lot, I surely would need supplementing it but normally I don’t need it ever.
And it’s perfectly fine for me to get all my sodium in one go too. I had plenty of OMAD days and I only have sodium from my food.

(Bacon enough and time) #23

I don’t have an explanation, but here are some thoughts: firstly, these long-term carnivores took quite some time to get where they are; they didn’t cut out salt overnight. Secondly, they are eating a lot more meat on carnivore than they would on keto, and may be getting more salt that way.

Thirdly, no one, to my knowledge, has studied people who’ve been on a ketogenic diet for as long as some of those long-term carnivores. It is not outside the realm of possibility that a long-term ketonian might also gradually come to need less added salt.

Lastly, I suppose we also can’t a priori rule out the possibility that the people who persist in a carnivore diet over the long haul are those whose bodies handle salt in a freakish manner.

The short answer: More research needs to be done on this.



I still do altenernative days supplementing.

A happy medium, if you will.

(Robin) #25

I have 1 year keto then one year carnivore. Needed extra salt on both. Otherwise, nightly muscle cramps.

(Bacon enough and time) #26

As the Dudes’ second dogma runs: "Find out what works for you." (And stick with it. Not to mention that it might also change over time.)

(Bob M) #27

When Brian Sanders (Peak Human podcast) went to Africa, he remarked that the Hazda (who eat mainly meat, though do eat some tubers and the like) did not use salt or water, even while hunting for hours. I saw Expedition Unknown, who visited the Hazda, and one of their people had to stop and go back to camp while being out with the Hazda on a hunt. Again, the crew all had water, but the Hazda did not use water or salt, at least while hunting.