Autophagy and Protein Restriction

science
(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #41

All the information is free on the website IDMprogram.com

(Jane) #42

And fasting is not only FREE it saves you grocery money!

#43

Thank you!

(Splotchy) #44

I so wish there was more research on dietary-induced autophagy - a lot to hope for as there’s going to be no big-pharma or big-food profit to be made from people practicing dietary restriction and thus no sponsorship.

However my n=1 experience is:
30lb lost in 6 months doing simple keto ie negligible carbs but eating whatever unrestricted fat/protein in no particular ratio, including random snacks, whenever I wanted. This took 5 months, after which I noticed my large solid tummy had turned into a slightly crumpled squidgy overhang. No probs, I thought, I can just tuck that into some big knickers, a small price to pay for better health.

Then I read Fung’s ‘Obesity Code’ - really that man should have a health Nobel for the lives he will save if all followed his carefully evidenced advice! Anyhoo, I stopped snacking, continued keto at either 1mad or 2mad with all eaten in an 8 hr window, a 36 hour fast x1 per week and a 100 hour fast x1 per month. This is easy to fit around family meals and social events. I’ve also upped fats and reduced alcohol from the odd half bottle to the odd glass.

The results are a further 15lb off in just two months and I think that overhang is shrinking/tightening, ie less overhang. Need more time to be sure. If so, ie if my body is shifting unwanted connective tissues/proteins/weird cells in the skin then I am really thrilled as this (hopefully) means I’m losing dangerous plaques/tangles/mutated cells and other tissue rubbish on the inside. The reduced loose skin is good for vanity, but really the value is as a barometer of what is going on inside. That is, if the theory is true. No-one ever died of loose skin, but do from cancers, ALS, Alzheimer’s…

My diet is about 80/15/5 for fat/protein/carbs when I can be bothered to check it. I’m never hungry, and unlike any diet I’ve ever done before I now have superb resilience when family members walk in with pizzas, chips, etc, or when people bring in biscuits, cake at work. I just mentally visualise all those unwanted cells dissolving with the now long waits between meals.

(Running from stupidity) #45

:+1::+1::+1:

(Doug) #46

:exclamation: So true - and I imagine there are forces already at work to discredit and stigmatize fasting for therapeutic purposes. (@juice :smile:)

Autophagy is a fascinating subject. I think and hope that the possible/probable benefits of fasting for Alzheimer’s and many cancers will bring about more studies, even if if stemming from well-known and well-connected researchers with a lot of pull who think, “Ooh, this could make me famous!”

On reduced skin and tissue recycling - I had raised, pinkish-purple keloid scars on both shin areas, resulting from a laughably stupid thing I did with a set of metal steps in 2011. Started ketogenic eating and fasting in 2017, and after 18 months they were almost entirely gone. One leg has darker, more pigmented areas of skin where the scars formerly were raised up, but the skin surface is totally smooth. The other leg has nothing - everything totally vanished and you cannot tell where the scars were. Never dreamed that they would ever substantially decrease or go away and I wish I had taken ‘Before’ pictures.

(mole person) #47

My husband had a awful raised scar on his back from where a doctor did a really botched large mole removal. It was about an inch and a half long and a centimeter wide. It was not only thick, purple and raised but it was painful. That had been the case for 10 years. After a few months on keto it was a flat, ordinary, unpigmented scar that no longer hurts at all. I didn’t believe the scar tissue hype until I saw it for myself.

(Doug) #48

I would have scoffed and laughed at the notion. Personally, after 6 years my scars were “a part of me.” And then before I knew it - the damn things were gone… :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Our genes tell our cells to do some things under certain conditions - and if we can get our bodies to use up the unneccessary stuff, including extra skin, scars, tumors, etc. - that truly seems miraculous and just totally cool.

(Splotchy) #49

Heh - you’ve just promoted me to take a peek at my 35 year old appendix scar (another thing hidden in my big knix). For years it’s been a faint white line with 5 faint white 1mm spots each side where the stitches were. The line is now much less demarcated from the normal skin and the spots have vanished! That is DEFINITELY recent.

Weird. Plus I have my appendix scar down as a distinguishing mark on my prior passport applications. If it melts, will they believe me!!

(Running from stupidity) #50

I’m FOR it for therauputic purposes.

I’m agin it for self-aggrandisement and the-misleading-of-noobs purposes.

:slight_smile:

Autophagy is a fascinating subject.

So true. I wish we knew more about it, along with BMR reduction caused by calorie restriction. These are the two things that worry me most. (And you know I know how to worry!)

It was about an inch and a half long and a centimeter wide.

You really don’t want ANYONE to know what the size was, do you?

(Doug) #51

Ha! Yes - BMR and the ‘set point’ for weight is one of my two favorite things, along with autophagy. :slightly_smiling_face: I was reading about it this morning, and there are 20 or more genes that are involved with controlling metabolism, receiving information from kinases (enzymes) like mTOR, AMPK, etc., and the various signalling pathways and hormonal inputs and outputs form a dizzying lattice.

Plus, as individuals we won’t necessarily share the same experience. I would LOVE to really experiment, even if just for myself - try out various levels of food intake, exercise, and test the resting metabolic rate daily. I’ve seen prices around $4000 U.S. or $3000 for a used one, and have an inquiry in to Korr Medical Technologies about their products.

(Running from stupidity) #52

Ain’t that the truth.

and have an inquiry in to Korr Medical Technologies about their products.

Oooohhhh

(Splotchy) #53

Agree, we are in a midst of unknowns and known unknowns!

For example, why are some people hyperresponders wrt lipids?

Why, when I was 50lb overweight was I not diabetic, while I have normal weight colleagues who are pre-diabetic?

Does the ‘protein or fat’ intake seesaw depend on exercise and if so, how much?

“Set point” intruiges me. Does keto/fasting shift it slowly, or in steps? How will I know when it is properly reset

And I want to know EVERYTHING about autophagy! Once I am stable at a normal weight, can/should I induce it for the longevity benefits?

For sure we must vary genetically in our hormone responses and there are likely hormones/metabolites not yet identified. Research is greatly needed.

Meanwhile the known known is that sugar is poison, and natural fats are good for you; I can keep going on that!

(Doug) #54

Some have a lot of genetic rope, so to speak. Some are born Type 1, others commonly take a while, i.e. “adult onset” and the like. I didn’t get to full-fledged Type 2 status until after 30 years of gaining 150 lbs and being 58 years old. My mom is 82, overweight most of her life, and quite a fiend for sugar and carbohydrates in general - not diabetic though I suspect she has some degree of insulin resistance.

(Splotchy) #55

Sadly, I think we will see a generational trickledown effect. The youngsters born in the 70s reared on HCLF had their pregnancies around the millennium, during which time gestational diabetes soared. Their offspring were exposed to fructose/glucose before they were even born and have become the plump teenagers we see today, fatter than their parents, ready to embark on their own pregnancies. Childhood T2D will likely go upwards.

It angers me the public health policies continue to peddle HCLF and CICO while there is now abundant evidence this has failed, indeed worse than failed, is actively harming people. If there was a tablet which had all the attributes of LCHF tweaking (free, negligible risks, improved biomarkers, drug cost savings, reversal of serious disease), it would be the most profitable ever and eagerly promoted. But even though we have the means via dietary manipulation, the policy makers continue to bury their heads in the sand, for shame.

(Doug) #56

I agree, Splotchy, and well said. It’s a tidal wave-like epidemic. 1/3 of Americans diabetic by 2050…

(Jane) #57

:rofl:

(Adam Kirby) #58

This one’s easy to answer based on the personal fat threshold theory. You were overweight but hadn’t maxed out your adipose storage. Your normal weight colleagues are close to maxing theirs out. When you run out of adipose storage that’s when everything goes to hell. And your capacity to store body fat is simply genetic.

#59

Problematical for me because I need to eat as little protein as I can possibly because of very extreme insulin resistance.
There is no simple test I can have frequently enough to know if I am running insulin at a high level. It creates problems for me.

#60

Protein is problematical for me (because I need to eat as little protein as I can) because of very extreme insulin resistance.

There is no simple test I can have frequently enough to know if I am running insulin at a high level. It creates problems for me.
So I would aim for the .6 per kilo of bodyweight as the source is credible and the number is lower, hence less likely to have me running damaging insulin numbers outside of my awareness except every three months when I can get it tested.