Autophagy and Protein Restriction

science
(Jane) #61

You can’t test for insulin but why can’t you test blood glucose as a proxy? If BG goes down then you must have had an insulin response to drive it down right?

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #62

For me, that is very little protein. I’m averaging 1g/kilo of body weight. I’m about 53kg total body weight.

(Bunny) #64

Insulin is not the problem, I personally would be worried about the amount of Carnitine and Choline in my diet and are what help the ketogenic diet or even a high carb diet[1][2] (believe it or not?) burn up the visceral adipose fat VAT (what is causing the problem to begin with?) around the internal organs i.e. liver, pancreas; what really happens is little tiny particles of fat tissue become microscopically deposited or embedded specifically into the liver and pancreas tissue, in other words becomes part of it, not just around it? Thanks to High Fructose Corn Syrup HFCS?

It’s not the insulin I would be worried about triggering, it is the visceral accumulation of fat around the internal organs that I would set my priorities on fixing to save my life?

I personally would be eating lots of eggs (choline) and steak[3]!

References:

[1] ”…Carnitine is intimately involved in getting fatty acids into the mitochondria where they can be burned for fuel. There are two different types of carnitine transporters in the membrane of mitochondria that allow the fats to get from the cytoplasm into the heart of the mitochondria so that they can be burned to make ATP. If you are lacking in these transporters, then your body will be unable to get the ATP it needs from fat and will use carbs instead, allowing your fat to stay right on your hips. If you over-express these carnitine transporters (like they did in the rat model in reference 1) you will get an increase in fatty acid oxidation, a lowering of triglyceride levels, and an increase in skeletal muscle insulin sensitivity. This supplement seemed like it could be a cure-all for fat loss , at lease if we put our faith in the biochemistry. …” L-Carnitine and Choline | Do They Work For Weight Loss?

[2] “…We have found that choline was more effective than methionine in decreasing the liver steatosis of KD-fed mice. On the other hand, methionine supplementation was more effective than choline in restoring weight gain and normalizing the expression of several fatty acid and inflammatory genes in the liver of KD-fed mice. Our results indicate that choline and methionine restriction rather than carbohydrate restriction underlies many of the metabolic effects of KD. …” …More

[3] “…Red meat has the highest levels. A 4-ounce beef steak has an estimated 56 mg to 162 mg of carnitine. Carnitine is also found in smaller amounts in chicken, milk and dairy products, fish, beans, and avocado. Vegans tend to get less carnitine from foods, but their bodies usually produce enough anyway? …More

Adrenaline necessary to use fat?
Lectins and fiber flours
Lower calorie diet more Ketogenic?
(Charlotte) #65

lol lucky for me I mostly eat steak and eggs for my protein. I also have been working off of a 0.6 protein calculation since I started keto with great success. I try not to second guess things and go with my gut (literally and figuratively).

(Curt Hibbs) #66

I found this video ( Nutrition Forum - Dr. Donald Layman) to be very illuminating:

(PJ) #67

That’s one of the most interesting videos I’ve seen in a long time, thanks for sharing that!

That, and this below talk, have both changed my perspective on my future dietary plans.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #68

PJ and @curtishibbs (Curt) thanks so much. This was a great, info-packed, presentation. I’m one of the “older” population he talks about (65yo) and I’ve already upped my protein to reduce or reverse sarcopenia. Did that several months ago after listening to Dr. Ben Bikman and others. I do resistance training 4/wk (2 upper, 2 lower) and interval training on a rowing machine and a few core exercises 1/wk.

At my age, It is a struggle to gain lean muscle mass but I am doing that. Not mentioned in this video, but elsewhere, resistance training and increased lean mass reduce insulin resistance.

I would love to better understand the effect of total fasting, not energy restriction, on building lean mass. I have to fast to lose it, or it seems that way.

1.2 to 2.4 g protein / kg body wt / d = wow. 2.4 is really high. Some days I might be 1.4 like post EF days. IF days I think probably 1g/kg/d. (I’m 93 kg). Maybe when I get to maintenance I will do less frequent fasting but longer for autophagy. Hope that is in 6 to 8 months.

Again thank you very much. Fascinating. I loved his dry humor as well.

#69

I totally understand both measurements! It didn’t dawn on me that most might not use both systems. I grew up at the time when both Imperial and Metric systems were taught in school at the same time so I interchange them all the time as well!

#70

I have no information to impart, just my own experience. In the past 6 weeks as a pre-menopausal woman, I’ve lost 23 lbs with keto/OMAD/IF. I’ve blown past any of my previous “Set points” with no slow down or hiccups. So not sure Set point is as set in stone as has been postulated! Keto on folks!

(Empress of the Unexpected) #71

I do believe in the setpoint. After one year of keto I am at my “most of adult life until menopause” weight. No matter what I eat, or don’t eat, I am staying steady.

(FRANK) #72

@anon13588705, I too am in the same boat with severe insulin resistance and chronic high blood sugars. I have read from other sources than a person may have to lower their protein intake, so the .6g per kilogram of body weight makes sense. On the PKD protocol, Dr. Clemens recommends if your glucose is high - you’re eating too much; if ketones are low, your fat:protein ratio is too low. I am struggling to lower my fasting glucose (approx 123mg/dl) and increase my fasting ketones (.3 mmol/L). Once I start producing some decent ketone numbers I intend to do some serious fasting following Dr Fung’s book.