Arrrggghhhhh can someone give me some clarity!

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(Dani) #1

I am new to the forum however I have been doing keto for 13 months. I lost 50lb last year however, since September 2017 I have been stalling. I decided to relook at my macros and realised I was eating around 160g of protein per day. I know that protein can stall, if not kick you out of ketosis so I’ve made some tweaks. In the last few weeks I have found that If I stick to less than 70g of protein per day, 20g of carbs, and eat fat to satiety, I lose weight. What concerns me is my calories are only around 1200-1400 calories per day. The 2 Keto Dudes podcast I listened to today said that calories don’t matter, but then I hear that a deficit is still important. Can someone please shed some light for me?

I read everything I can get my hands on, listen to podcasts, YouTube etc but I still can’t understand if calories are to be counted.

Im 175lb, 5 foot 5 inches, female, lift weights 5 days per week and exercise regularly.

Any help would be appreciated…

(Karen) #2

@Danniidh37 Pete is a great person to address this. He did use reduced calories to great effect, but it might be that his metabolism is not as deranged.

K

(Ken) #3

I’ll give you the Heretical view. From what you described, you’re getting around 75% of your calories from fat. Since you’re adapted, your body is using this very efficiently and keeping you in Maintenance. Protein gluconeogenesis is demand driven, so with all that fat, as well as the fact you’re training, I seriously doubt it’s causing your stall. Since I may be wrong, a little self experimentation is in order.

I suggest going to the 60/35/5% macro, eating that to satiety, and adjusting the amount of food to OMAD, and making sure you’re actually hungry by the time you eat. I’d try this for at least two weeks.

(Dani) #4

Thanks for the reply. Quite honestly I’m never really hungry. I’ve tried OMAD and I find it mentally very tough and tend to fall off the wagon. I fast 18:6 3 days per week and seem to manage that OK.

I’ll give the new ratios a go from tomorrow and see what the next few weeks bring. Maybe the new ratios will help me in getting back to OMAD. Thanks once again.

(Robert C) #5

Here is another way to think about it. You are getting more than 1200-1400 calories per day if you are losing weight. You are also getting the calories from the fat you are losing. If you are losing a pound a week then you are getting about an extra 500 calories per day from your local fat store.

If you are really fat adapted I think this is the case but, as with any consistent calorie intake scheme, it will work until it doesn’t - until your body flips from looking at fat adapted as a good way to go to thinking it is in a calorie restricted environment (i.e. your next plateau).

I would throw in some weeks of zero weight loss - eat whatever extra calories are needed to keep the same weight - to put off that plateau.

(Dani) #6

That was my original thought process and seems to be working well these last couple of weeks. I’ve dropped 3 inches from my waist since I changed things around.

The reason for my “wobble” is listening to people saying that calories don’t matter and restriction causes the body to slow and weight loss stops. I was thinking about 1 day a week having as many calories as required (keeping to my ratios) as needed.

Thoughts??

(Jay AM) #7

This is of course only applicable in a closed system, which the body isn’t.

I’ve left a lot of CICO keto reading stuff below.

https://peterattiamd.com/do-calories-matter/

https://idmprogram.com/tag/calories-in-calories-out/

(Dani) #9

Thank you so much I’ll get reading through them now. I love a good study!!

(Pete A) #10

Why not add a tablespoon or two of coconut oil (or another fat of your choice) to up the calories?

(Dani) #11

Might be worth trying that before change my ratios around. I love HWC in my coffee so I could just add more! Win win…

(Maxwell) #12

MCT Oil is a good way to add additional fat also. Megan Ramos said that MCT oil acts as Exogenous ketones, that’s is always helpful.

(Dani) #13

I actually took my MCT oil out in order to reduce my calories! I could easily put a few hundred calories worth in my BPC in the morning! It sound like if I keep the carbs and protein low and fats higher, I should be onto a winner!

(Maxwell) #14

I think Satiety is the cornerstone of when you’re calories are right. It seems to me that if you actively “Count Calories” you will intellectualize the process and fall into the trap of employing the Traditional Wisdom of “Calorie in Calorie out” Model"

That’s hard to resist because it’s so elegant a philosophy – except for the part that that Model doesn’t work in the long run. I worry that if I am guided by Counting Calories – and it’s tempting be/c I am not hungry – I risk slowing down my metabolism.

I heard Megan Ramos say that women should add a few Tbsp more of Fat to every meal because that will make the body release Leptin – the " I’m Full Hormone."

Here’s another thing I heard Megan talk about: they had a client who was doing Keto perfectly but not losing weight. It turned out she was having a response to Cream. They changed out the Cream and the weight loss started moving again.

I’ve heard that on several of her clients. I think more than a few Tbsp of Cream is an issue with me. I actually ‘feel’ an insulin response with Cream. That’s just me. But it’s something to think about it.

(Dani) #15

That is very interesting! This may be in fact the reason for my stall last year?

Thats left me with a lot to think about so thank you.

(Robert C) #16

“Calories don’t matter” really needs context. If your mindset is “Calories don’t matter” because you know what you are really trying to do is get your hormones straightened out then, in some sense, they don’t matter. Get your insulin low enough and you won’t store fat - even with lots of calories coming it. At the same time, you’ve really got to be careful because getting your insulin low is difficult to attain and maintain with a lot of calories coming in. All calories raise insulin to some degree.

I would play around with the notion of variance and see where it gets you. When you say “as many as required” you should keep in mind that you may be wrong. You may be adding a day of eating 200 calories under your expenditure needs to 6 days of 600 calories under your expenditure needs. Another way to play the variance game is fasting. Add 2 days of overeating (add 600 calories those two days) and add a day of fasting in a week. Total week’s intake is about the same but your body might avoid getting the “I’m being calorie restricted so should store fat” message.

(Pete A) #17

The idea of zigzagging calories is worth considering.

(Dani) #18

Thanks I shall have a read up on this tonight.

(Katie) #19

I do not have a lot of insight on this but that low of calories (1200-1400) for a long time might cause your metabolism to down-regulate. Then, if you are at a point when you want/need to increase your calories, your metabolism might not be ready for that and you might gain weight somewhat quickly. This is just something to explore/research.