Are you changing your long term fasting length after listening to the Phinney interview?

[atomicspacebunny]

Is that a reference to the vitamin pills he took?

Yes, but hard to find the origins of ‘PALADAC’ probably have to visit a University Library to get more info. Parke, Davis & Co must of got the idea from somewhere?

[MarkGossage]

You were just saying that Barbieri turned those processes on using brewers yeast? Could you make up your mind?

I understood you were claiming that the brewers yeast turned on the processes so in effect Barbieri wasn’t “fasting” . Certainly not water fasting anyway (which is classically what fasting, especially for autophagy, is).

[atomicspacebunny]

You were just saying that Barbieri turned those processes on using brewers yeast? Could you make up your mind?

Let’s take this slowly and logically “fasting” in and of itself is a “process” in order to ‘sustain’ such an ‘extended fast’ you still need ‘micronutrients’ or you would flat out die?

If he had not taken the “PALADAC” everyday he would be one dead case study on fasting.

Yeast expands (multiplies) in the gut and feeds vital organs and gut flora and in the case of ‘PALDAC’ it is fermented with Vitamin C.

Very interesting!

Yeast has minerals that control blood glucose besides having life extending properties that work with the 5 different stages of autophagy and 3 types autophagy.

[MarkGossage]

If he had not taken the “PALADAC” everyday he would be one dead case study on fasting.

So you are now saying that water fasting is unsustainable… (possibly not for 385 days I agree) but for a few weeks surely? There seem to be many who do it for 7 days or more without problems.

[atomicspacebunny]

Why would a 7 day water fast not be ‘sustainable‘?

If your talking about an anomaly like in the case of Barbieri; not sustainable without some kind of supplementation.

[MarkGossage]

You Wrote

“You could “fast” and turn on different “biological processes” but there may be micronutrients that are required to make those “biological processes” happen?”

The micronutrients have to come from somewhere (food) so you won’t be “fasting” in the classic sense.

If those processes require food then they won’t be turned on by fasting will they?

[atomicspacebunny]

You must think once you consume something it just disappears into thin air just because your fasting and micronutrients just quit working?

Vitamin deficiency prior to fasting could be an issue also.

Maybe you think yeast is carbs (oooh how scary) and thus your not fasting if you take a little while fasting…lol It’s vitamins actually because it is dead and acts as a transport for the vitamins once you kill the live yeast with heat.

There is nothing you could eat during a fast that will break it, unless you keep eating, because autophagy is continual. For example If you ate 1 cracker during a fast that’s not enough break the chain reaction of what’s already taking place. That’s a game anorexics like to play and the autophagy ends up catabolizing their heart muscles and they die of cardiac arrest with the least little scare.

Autophagosomes don’t just stop mid-animation once they are set into motion just because you ate something; they complete their cycle catabolization as planned.

Eating yourself can be good if you do it right?

[KetoGolem]

That’s how autophagy was discovered by studying yeast, so yeast definitely could not interfere with it. We have no idea how autophagy really works in the human body because there is really no way to measure it?

I think that on all counts here the exact opposite is true. Christian de Duve is given credit for discovering autophagy, and it is he who came up with the term. With an electron microscope he saw what he first called “dense bodies” in tissue samples from rat livers. Upon further examination, they were found to be structures with two membranes, enclosing and degrading cellular parts.

Yeast has so much protein (more than meat) that it’s going to stop increased autophagy dead in its tracks.

You cannot measure autophagy in human beings anyway

You can measure it the same ways we measure it in a rat or mouse.

Angus Barbieri took Paladac during his 382 day fast

He had fasted more than 290 days before he took any Paladac.

If he had not taken the “PALADAC” everyday he would be one dead case study on fasting.

He made it to more than 290 days of fasting without Paladac. There is nothing logical that says he would have ever died due to lack of Paladac.

Yeast has minerals that control blood glucose besides having life extending properties that work with the 5 different stages of autophagy and 3 types autophagy.

This reads like a deliberate attempt at disinformation. Yeast is about 40% protein, is it not? It is well known that protein suppresses autophagy more than anything else. More than carbohydrates, and very much more than fat.

[SomeGuy]

Yes, but hard to find the origins of ‘PALADAC’ probably have to visit a University Library to get more info. Parke, Davis & Co must of got the idea from somewhere?

@atomicspacebunny Throughout history, businesses, religious groups, academics and individuals get product ideas “from somewhere.” As you rightly note, Parke Davis somehow got the idea to introduce (and trademark) “Paladac.”

I’m not seeing this as a compelling reason to inspire confidence.

[atomicspacebunny]

Yeast has so much protein (more than meat) that it’s going to stop increased autophagy dead in its tracks.

So it just stops the whole process? I’m very doubtful about that, you don’t just stop autophagy dead in its tracks.

He made it to more than 290 days of fasting without Paladac. There is nothing logical that says he would have ever died due to lack of Paladac.

When you have enough body fat like he did, I agree, that is highly possible. Later on he would have died if he was not taking the ‘PALDAC’ for sure.

This reads like a deliberate attempt at disinformation. Yeast is about 40% protein, is it not? It is well known that protein suppresses autophagy more than anything else. More than carbohydrates, and very much more than fat.

It is no more disinformative than any other assumption or assertion on autophagy in human beings. If you read anything about yeast it assist the process of autophagy because of it’s vitamin and mineral content, your thinking is because you see the word “YEAST” that omg it is a protein, etc. nope what I’m talking about and taking is dead yeast, live yeast yeah a different story.

When I experiment with yeast it always non-fortified no matter what kind of yeast it is.

For example if you take nutritional yeast on a ketogenic diet you bypass the keto flu easily.

And to clarify what your pointing out; what I do is toast brewers yeast in a frying pan or oven to make sure it is dead which leaves the vitamins and minerals behind.

[atomicspacebunny]

I’m not seeing this as a compelling reason to inspire confidence.

Inspired that I am. and as far as my self-experiments have been, it works well when fasting and I have found that eating both nutritional yeast and brewers yeast with lots and lots of Vitamin C from plants puts turbo boosters on fasting and the ketogenic diet especially in body fat oxidation and energy levels.

[SomeGuy]

Inspired that I am. and as far as my self-experiments have been, it works well…

May your self-experimentation continue to be a success! Science begins with n=1. Best wishes

[KetoGolem]

So it just stops the whole process? I’m very doubtful about that, you don’t just stop autophagy dead in its tracks.

It stops what we were talking about.

It is no more disinformative than any other assumption or assertion on autophagy in human beings. If you read anything about yeast it assist the process of autophagy because of it’s vitamin and mineral content, your thinking is because you see the word “YEAST” that omg it is a protein, etc. nope what I’m talking about and taking is dead yeast , live yeast yeah a different story.

Then you don’t understand autophagy and how it is regulated in human beings. I’m guessing you do know a little more than you let on, but are being deliberately obtuse (or you are just simply as wrong as can be). Nevertheless, live or dead yeast does not matter - it is the protein content that the kinases which control autophagy react to. Your logic would have us eating a 6000 calorie, 7 course meal, sprinkling some yeast on it and declaring that we were fasting.

[atomicspacebunny]

Then you don’t understand autophagy and how it is regulated in human beings. I’m guessing you do know a little more than you let on, but are being deliberately obtuse (or you are just simply as wrong as can be).

Likewise I’m sure? You talk about this as if it were a solid science and there can be no other way other than what you profess to know, which you could not because it is unknown in humans so don’t be too shocked to know that you have no idea what you profess to know?

I study autophagy very in-depth so don’t make accusations that you cannot know to begin with?

[mtncntrykid]

You talk about this as if it were a solid science and there can be no other way other than what you profess to know

It’s frustrating when the shoe is on the other foot, eh @atomicspacebunny?

[atomicspacebunny]

I’m half Leprechaun and love shoes just bought four pairs of GoGo boots.

[KetoGolem]

You talk about this as if it were a solid science and there can be no other way other than what you profess to know, which you could not because it is unknown in humans so don’t be too shocked to know that you have no idea what you profess to know?

You are deliberately trolling this forum, because you obviously know enough to refute your own statements.

I study autophagy very in-depth so don’t make accusations that you cannot know to begin with?

I don’t doubt that you have done some reading about it. You know enough that you would never be talking about something with 40% protein being a “turbo booster for autophagy,” if you were not straight-up trolling. While we do have much yet to learn about autophagy, the science behind protein being anything but a “booster” for autophagy is solid indeed.

[atomicspacebunny]

B[quote=“KetoGolem, post:57, topic:91165”]
You are deliberately trolling
[/quote]

Do you have these hallucinations often?

I don’t doubt that you have done some reading about it. You know enough that you would never be talking about something with 40% protein being a “turbo booster for autophagy,” if you were not straight-up trolling. While we do have much yet to learn about autophagy, the science behind protein being anything but a “booster” for autophagy is solid indeed.

Now listen very carefully:

I use brewers yeast and nutritional yeast when I fast.

And I ALWAYS will because I benefit from in ways you don’t scientifically understand.

You can do what you do, when you fast, and I will do what I do when I fast?

How hard is that to understand?

[KetoGolem]

Do you have these hallucinations often?

Translation: “Yes, I’m trolling.”

I use brewers yeast and nutritional yeast when I fast.

And I ALWAYS will because I benefit from in ways you don’t scientifically understand.

Who knows what incredible flights of fancy you take? Meanwhile, you are giving up on increased autophagy if you’re taking in the nutrients that rule it out.

[OldDoug]

Meanwhile, you are giving up on increased autophagy if you’re taking in the nutrients that rule it out.

This.