Are we just an echo chamber?

(the cheater) #41

Right? Maybe that’s why there’s really no “famous” keto people… They all get ‘whacked’ by big pharma lol!

(Rob) #42

I skimmed the replies to this thread. I may have missed this this but I think the premise that an echo chamber (people always put negative labels on things to make a point) is a bad thing. The issue is not whetehr or not something IS “an echo chanber” but WHAT is being echoed … right? What I like about the 2kd podcasts is they have a regular section about what they may have gotten wrong. Thats real life right? I think they dedicated a podcast about what they might have gotten wrong. We all have it a bit (at least) wrong.

How many other groups do that? Not saying keto has all the answers or is right for everyone, but it’s a “big table” and there 's room at the table for more than one point of view. I don’t think I’m alone when I say that the thing that makes me nervous/annoyed on this forum is when people get overly dogmatic or mindlessly “echo” the partly line without even reading and understanding what someone is saying in a post.

So in some sense the term echo chamber is a amateurish cheap shot by a person who wants to dismiss something without bothering to thing something through or having any real facts. Getting back to my earlier point … what are we echoing? Science as we see it. There is still room for discussion in the many gray areas. If what is being echoed is fallacious … then it’s wrong. Doesn’t matter what we belive … does it work for the individual… If not … breathe in, breathe out, move on (Thanks Jimmy Buffet).

To end on a lighter note … and to add affirmation to much of what was said earlier … and to cater to any Blazing Saddles fans: “Howard Johnson is Right!” .

Lastly … and it has NOTHING to do with the topic … but it’s it’s in keeping with @Alecmcq remarks in this thread:

OK, let’s not be an echo chamber…

I think Brazil will win the World Cup.

Useful? No, I thought not.

“Nietzsche says, out of chaos comes order” Useful? Nope … I just like the line that comes after it.

(Alec) #43

So much for my prediction! Always was great at predictions… not.

(Rob) #44

I know little about football/soccer, but I’m pulling for Belgium. According to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy a Rory was awarded to someone for the most gratuitous use of the word Belgium in a serious screenplay.

Tough break for Brazil.

(Cristian Lopez) #45

I really dont think the gov will ever give up the Whole grains and 300 gram carb diet, I like too look at it as a the fact whoever isnt on par with this ,than there missing out and maybe till they meet gates of heaven theyll find the truth or maybe ketosis is just a survival instinct we abuse too lose body fat and were slowly killing our selves ):

I really hope We Are Right…

(Doug) #46

Good point, Rob. I think anybody that gets to know this forum realizes that the negative aspect of ‘echo chamber’ really is not a big deal here. If one is intent on trolling or is primarily motivated by the chip on their shoulder, then they may not really “like” it here, but so what?

#47

Do you put bacon at the end of everything? LOL

(Doug) #48

I’ve heard he even starts some days with it… :wink:

#49

Its the cooler keto version of LOL

(Kern) #50

When you “google” ketogenic, you can come up with actual NIH and other medical abstracts but you must be sure you google correctly. At first you will get negativity about ketogenic, dangers. These are provided by Big Pharma to keep selling their meds. Keto is proven for epilepsy (about 100 years ago), and Dr. Joslin of the Joslin Clinic pioneered the percents of carbs, fats, etc in taking care of diabetics. google that. Also, in the Craigslist discussion forums, under diet, ketogenic, there are 1 or 2 people who simply must be on the payroll of big pharma as they shoot down anything but low fat high carbs. Even when I sent EXACT web addresses of medical abstracts, the guy argued with it. Could not argue with the facts, but tried to discredit me. (I’m a pharmacist) on keto. So be aware of the deliberate mis-information. The players in health are now getting very nervous that people are waking up and taking care of their health. We now have many doctors who are seeing the light and getting people diabetes under non-insulin and non-insulin dependent control. If we area an echo chamber, I’m glad to be in it. my email is: stronghands1@gmail.com I belong to the WNC Ketogenic Lifestyle meetup group here in Asheville, NC. Thanks for the rant.

(Kern) #51

There is a scare. Look at my post towards #47
Big Pharma is now getting out all the guns they can, believe me.
The deliberate mis-information is gathering.
Just look for TRUE medical
see my post down further

(Sharon) #52

I am 72 yrs old female Lost 35 # slowly, I have been Keto over a year. I am in a giant stall, perhaps where my weight belongs for me is all. I am 5’3" and now weight between 140-145 I lost 26 inches, mostly my belly and butt. Size 10, I have never felt better. And my labs are great.
Echo chamber is fine with me.
I have tried Vegitarian and CICO and they not only did not work for me, but I was miserable and hungry all the time.
It is human nature to seek out like minded individuals. The CICO folks I know are like Yoyos with their weight and the Vegitarians are having physical issues all the time especially thyroid issues, they don’t feel good and look like crap. Why would I listen to them? My “echo chamber” gives me the suport and the information I need. KCKO I say

(Doug) #53

Kern, I know “the fight is on,” but the market for insulin is still growing fast. Over 8% compound annual growth rate - that is HUGE. I’m thinking that when that starts declining meaningfully, the desperation will increase.

#54

When responding to Pharma shills, it’s helpful to compliment them on their Astroturf skills

(Karen) #55

Politics is rank with this. . Media spin and those who believe it all, but think they are open minded. Tough to ferret out the truth in anything when money in involved in all media, and source material. Dear dear.

K

(Doug) #56

Karen, agreed there is more outright denial of “the other side,” now. And if one consciously or subconsciously is really stuck on carbs, then it could be awfully easy to believe that which facilitates it.

(Michel Labelle) #57

I couldn’t help myself…

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/reversing-diabetes.html

The Diabetes UK site lists 4 ways to do it, including studies and science that show it is possible.

Point taken, as to "Why is it not at the top of the MSN tab etc… ". But not mainstream does not mean buried.

Basic reading/research and not succumbing to confirmation bias is required to avoid the echo…

(Sharon) #58

I came from Youtube :face_vomiting: --> Facebook :rage: --> Here. :slightly_smiling_face: Brand new to posting here but I’ve read many posts. Be glad of the way things are!

#59

@Michel_Labelle - thanks for the link to the UK resources. I tried to find similar information on the US site at www.diabetes.org and, Browsing and Searching gave me nothing. Pretty much, you’ve got diabetes, get used to it. And, the dietary advice seems designed to progress the disease. Lot of reassurance that you can just continue to eat like everyone else.

(Diane) #60

Great presentation! Thanks for sharing!!