APRIL 2019 IF/EF Chat ALL WELCOME

(Bacon for the Win) #281

Probably over ambitious, but easy enough to remedy if there is a problem. I’ve basically been doing OMAD for a few weekd now, it’s the head game that worries me.

(Windmill Tilter) #282

I don’t have a clue why heart rate slows down, but it does seem highly correlated with RMR. If you heart rate is climbing, there is a good chance that your RMR is too.

When @primal.peanut added resistance training to the mix, it changed his RMR pattern. Interestingly, it actually made his RMR climb even as he went deeper into a fast.

You should get your RMR tested. I bet it would be fascinating!

(Neil) #283

For me, resting heart rate correlates strongly with whether I’m feasting or fasting but not with RMR per se. As you noted, I’ve had some fasts where RMR increases during the fast, yet resting HR stays pretty flat.

As soon as I start eating again though, my resting HR jumps from around 50 bpm to 75-80 bpm!

It’s a big enough jump that I can feel it. I don’t need to measure it to know it has spiked.

#284

I’ve used ketosticks before. I think I’ve still got some somewhere. But I know I’m in ketosis.

I gave up on the fast Sunday night, but I did make it seven days. I only lost 3lbs but I think I got some good autophagy going on.

How’s your fast going?

(Herb Martin) #286

Good job on 7 days. That is a significant accomplishment – just like even a 1 day or 13 hour extended fast is an accomplishment for people who are new or gaining experience, or simply for whom this is all that is needed.

Ketosticks go bad through exposure to air or repeatedly opening the bottle.

So if you get no reading consider your sticks might have spoiled.

$8 on Amazon for 100.

Fast is going fantastic, Today is Day #9. Best GKI yet on this fast at 0.80 with a NICE Glucose of 62 (might be my lowest ever) and a decent Ketone of 4.2.

The new diet, fasting, weight loss, and vitamins are having a big impact on the rest of my life, in addition to my wife deciding to try all this and improving HER health and fitness.

Improving her health is probably more important than improving mine, since I was doing “Ok” despite all that weight. She has a number of chronic illnesses and they are resolving, plus she is sleeping better and longer without waking up repeatedly during the night.

She just left for the Y to swim which she hasn’t done in weeks (or months) so the effects are also increasing motivation and taking action.

This is the proof that we have, and especially for me: I have cleaned up (most) of the computer room after 4 years of procrastinating when we moved (yes, 4 years) so that we can turn it into a computer/TV-exercise studio with big screen, BowFlex (I went out and bought used), and her recumbent stationary bike etc.

(Had to clean up my side of the bedroom (after 4 years) to allow placing all of my books which were still in boxes in the computer room :slight_smile: so that was done also. More such things are happening to the house which we were just letting slide.

This sort of motivation and actual action is major indicator that our health, energy levels, and mindsets are improving.

Last night I went to boxing for the 2nd time (after 3 week delay); first times I’ve worked out in 4 years since I stopped teaching my Combatives & Self-Defense class.

I worked steady for over an hour – was there for 1 1/2 hours but the hour was really putting in work the entire time.

I never became “winded” or “light-headed” or suffered from severe low-blood pressure, and didn’t sweat excessively (sure I was sweating but when I was ill, I could lose 2 gallons or 16 lbs of water during a single 2 hour boxing session.)

It wasn’t a hard work out for boxing but it was a serious and significant one, both from a physical exertion and training (learning & teaching better technique.)

Very satisfying and productive.

Today, I am not even sore – my deltoids are noticeable tired, but not sore so it’s clear that I was working.

Looks like I am good to fast to day 14, and that longer is still a possibility.

Hope others are having successes. (I hope my successes are motivating more than sounding competitive. Remember, we all have our own FASTS and HEALTH and this is NOT a competition with anyone else.)

Be as healthy as you can and not a bit healthier :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Happy Fasting & Good Health to Everyone !!!

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #287

45hrs into what will be 60 to 72 hr fast. A little hunger today but not bad. Energy is good.

GKI of 2.9 and Dr Boz Ratio of 52. If any thing my BG and BHB levels mid fast are consistent. Last week at 4 hrs 83 and 1.8. This week 83 and 1.6. MY resting blood pressure this am was 111/60 which is the lowest it has been in weeks. Someday I will be able to get off most or all of my meds.

My hands are cold today and I take that to mean that, since morning, I have lost some water weight. I am staying hydrated and taking salt.

(JustGettingStarted) #288

After reading a great deal of the posts on this page all I can say is #goals, you all have inspired me!
Thank you!

(Herb Martin) #289

I’ve thought the “cold” is due to either our metabolism is slowing down OR (with new information that this doesn’t necessarily happen) our bodies trying to convince us to take action: get warmer, move, go hunting & gathering, etc.

Dropped another pound since morning so at 208 I am officially NOT OBESE (again.)

Overweight, but NOT obese even by the fairly worthless BMI calculation.

I posted the following on Facebook and hope you all don’t mind my re-posting it here:

9th Day Fasting

Today I reached 208, so I am officially not obese (again) but this list is not about weight loss so here are my health changes:

  1. Down from 6 hypertension meds to 1 or 2 each day (though I may need more when the fast ends.)

  2. Started boxing again (at 66 and after 4 years with little exercise and away from boxing for 8+ years). Did over an hour of pretty significant workout. Had a blast.

  3. Motivation is back and I am taking action on things that needed doing for years.

  4. Shoulders no longer need cortisone shots quarterly (that was due to carnivore diet. (Arthritis already required both knees and both hips to be replaced.)

  5. Several other small health improvements

  6. Glucose running 62-85.

  7. Energy high (doing things, see #2 & #3)

  8. No soreness from the return to exercise.

  9. Down 74 1/2 lbs since a year ago Thanksgiving; 35-ish lbs from goal weight.

  10. My wife who has more chronic illness used my example to start doing much of the same and has already fasted 3 3/4 days with a plan to rejoin me on my fast for day #15.

(I will need to continue past day 14 if I am healthy to support and encourage her so that will be additional motivation.)

#10 is perhaps the most important.

GKI is now 0.80 (Glucose 62, Ketones 4.2)

Headed to 14-days fasting and will consider (much) longer.

#290

I wasn’t sure if I was going to fast today and I’m still playing it by ear. Right now, I’m around 18 hours and I think I’ll be able to go through until dinner. So, it will be at least OMAD/24 hours. I’m sorta hungry now, but 18 hours is always one of the worst spots for me. I might feel more like continuing later on than I do now. :smiley:

(Doug) #291

Makes sense, Nick. Digestion takes some energy, so one would expect fasting RMR to go down, on that score alone.

I’ve always heard that roughly 10% of our energy goes to processing our food - I wonder how true that is. One’s diet could really swing things, with varying amounts of the macro nutrients.

(Windmill Tilter) #292

Good point. Both seem to spike at refeeds, and they can go in different directions. Definitely more correlation than causation I think.

Still though, I think that heart rate may be predictive, but not necessarily average heart rate. One thing that really interests me a ton is heart rate variability. It’s usually tracked during sleep, and it’s used to estimate recovery levels in athletes. I’d be super curious to see how deep sleep cycle heart rate variability correlated with GKI.

#293

Broke our Fast at 46.5 hrs. and will feed the next couple days. Wife already wants to do another Fast Thursday/Friday, so will get about 4 meals in before then and probably go to sometime Saturday.

Don’t know if it’s helpful to ya, but some say they will time the start of their Fast, so that their toughest time for them, is spent sleeping. So if you were to say, eat your last meal around 7 or 8am, you would be sleeping during this 18 hr. period? Just a thought, and also depends on when you go to sleep too.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #294

I almost stopped at 48 hrs. 46 to 48+ was a bit rough. Had two really hard meetings today and ended up with a slight headache and some hunger. I got home and my wife did not have enough dinner for me so I drank flavored seltzer water (just flavor) and went to Lowes to get some home repair supplies.

I’ll make at least 60 hours and might get to 70+. Let’s see how tomorrow morning I feel. I did weight myself tonight and was below 200 for the first time in more than 18 years.

#295

Congrats!!! Nice to hear this, Eric. :+1:

(Carrie ) #296

That’s great congrats! I’m sitting at 48 hours too and debating eating dinner with my kids… the WANT to eat is what’s hard for me right now, I feel fine physically, lol. I’m inspired by your post though, so I will push on too!

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #297

Thanks. YW Fasting can be team sport.

#298

I think its more mental. 18 hours is usually around what would be lunch time or late-ish lunch. Skipping breakfast is no big deal to me, but by lunch my brain is telling me it is time for a regularly scheduled meal. If I ignore that and keep on going, I’m usually okay.

Today turned out not to be a fast day. Around 4pm, I got hungry. So, I had some things to eat and then an hour or so later some dinner-ish foods. It ended up being sort-of OMAD over a couple of hours. Tomorrow I’ll fast.

(Windmill Tilter) #299

Yup. That about sums it up! I’m still trying to figure out what went wrong, but at the end of the day, the body is going to do what it wants. :slight_smile:

It does seem logical, but all of the research that I’ve seen shows that while total daily energy expenditure (TDEE) goes down while fasting because of the absence of TEF (thermic effect of food), the RMR remains stable. For me at least, that sure doesn’t seem to be the case. When I tested my RMR this morning it had popped back up to around ~2000kcal per day at 84 hours into the fast. I don’t have a clue why, because I didn’t eat, or exercise really do anything else differently. It’s all very puzzling. I hope by the end of all this tracking it starts to make more sense!

(Carol) #300

I really enjoy reading about all the tracking you guys do and hope the information can be helpful in the future for everyone. It’s very interesting - thanks for sharing.

I’ve completed 5 days of feeding/feasting and am now 2 hours into my next fast. :slight_smile:

(Herb Martin) #301

You folks are doing great.

Note that 36 to 72 hours are pretty much contain the most challenging time period so cut yourselves a break if you find it challenging and dig in if you can to push through.

Tonight I did boxing training for the 2nd night in a row (after almost a decade away). Felt good though I tire out quickly – I have a scheme for that though which works.

Talked my way into the ring for light sparing with some young guys. Only stayed 3 rounds, but if you’ve ever boxed a full round (even light) you know that even 1 minute is a long time.

4 Principles:

  1. Breathing
  2. Relaxing
  3. Moving
  4. (Maintaining) Structure (i.e., stance, balance, form, alignment)

Funny thing is that those are the four principles of almost all combat arts and many physical sports, though the names used might be different: Jui-Jitsu (BJJ), Systema (Russian Martial Arts), Rock Climbing, Tai Chi…

Note these are ACTIVE VERBS, almost moving & restoring structure while breathing and relaxing all muscles that aren’t actively working.

I love sparring so this gave me my fix.

BTW, this is a GREAT BOXING GYM I’ve found; wonderful people, both the coaches and leadership as well as the people who are there. Little kids to older people, girls & boys, men & women, young folks trying to get good at real boxing too.

It was really nice of the ring coach to let me into the ring with his young bucks since he didn’t know me and could only see some old, still overweight guy.

If you don’t know, getting to spar, even lightly is a real privilege in a serious boxing gym. It was an honor and a real pleasure.

Starting the 10th day of this fast. Weight was down at 206-207 after boxing but most of that additional drop is water loss from sweating.

Total weight loss (at 208 before boxing): 74 1/2 lbs.

My musculature is looking pretty good (surprisingly good though I’m not going to win any contests :slight_smile: ) and I am only moderately weak from no exercise.

I will be gaining some muscle in the coming weeks so my target weight is based on 15% body fat, That goal is varying between 170-182 depending on the vagaries of the scale, water percentage, and the inaccuracies of the scales fat percentage measurement.

Blood pressure is superior (approaching too low so I must be careful.) Only took 1 of 6 hypertension (4 different) meds today.

Would like to break 200 by day 14, then hang in another week or two finish at about 190 pounds, then try to hold under 200 after refeeding.

My general plan is to do this fast by weight rather than days – shoot for low 190s if I am feeling good and staying healthy.

Going to see an ART Chiropracter on Thu evening to determine if he can unfreeze my shoulders or neck (arthritis and/or tendonitis etc.)

Carnivore fixed the pain in the shoulders but they till need rehab but are working well enough for boxing.