Appreciate All Opinions

(Carole Sundeen) #1

I want to see ALL opinions. Then I can figure out what works for me. And, I see the things I am stressing about are happening to others as well. Let’s me know I must be on the right track. Thank you everyone.

I’m in week two and still feeling my way. I’ve stressed about the number of calories a lot. I have lived with CICO my entire life. It’s hard to change my thinking. A little voice inside says “but what if you are doing all this and get FATTER?” I’m trying to be patient and listen to all of you that are so helpful and willing to share your viewpoint.

(icky) #2

Stop being OCD :smile:

Trust the process and see what happens :kissing_heart:

(TJ Borden) #3

Seems like you already know CICO doesn’t work for you, or you wouldn’t have found your way here. This isn’t really an “opinion” issue. CICO has been debunked and there are several podcast episodes, both on 2ketodudes and the obesity code that talk about it. In addition, there’s plenty of threads on this forum. Just search CICO and start reading.

#4

As it’s been said, you’ve been CICO your whole life… and here you are. Remember why! We’re not all doing this because it doesn’t work!

If you haven’t already gone through this thread, take a scroll
https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/centurians-people-who-have-lost-more-than-100-lbs/27482

(clane) #5

Im a newbie to keto as well - started early march .
All I can tell you is:
lock your scale in the closet
uninstall your carb counter apps from your phone
clean out your cupboards
Eat bacon
relax
have some fun
it’ll happen.

(Monica Piccirillo) #6

My unpopular viewpoint—calories do matter in the long run. Yes, you want optimal nutrition—lower your carbs, good protein (I’m also in the higher protein camp—it is more satiating for me—another unpopular camp :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:) and most of my fat comes from my protein. I’m not pre-diabetic or metabolically challenged. I maintain my weight at 1900-2000 calories. Just **my viewpoint **
Edited to add: I weigh, measure and track my food.

(Tricia) #7

I started beginning of April. I’ve lost close to 7 lbs, but I only have bout 10 more to lose. I have done CICO, restricted food my whole life. It still scares me to be eating all this fat and calories! But…I really feel good, and it does work! For me to lose any amount of weight is incredible, because I messed up my metabolism. So, my advice to you is just eat if you’re hungry! Do not under eat because if you do, you’re just hurting yourself! Eat fat!! It really does give you energy, and fills you. Just listen to what your body is telling you. Keep carbs less than 20 net, lower if you can. Moderate protein.
Also, the people on here are extremely helpful! They seem to really care and want to help you!
I weigh and measure everything (OCD!) …and meal prep for the week. It’s easier that way. :wink: Hope this helps! :slight_smile:

(karen) #8

I was surprised to hear in an interview with Nina Teicholz that scientists in Germany pre WWII were actually doing a lot of research that was debunking the whole CICO concept. Post WWII this data was lost, America took over at the forefront of nutritional research and CICO became “truth”. So it’s not actually a new idea that CICO isn’t the be all end all of body weight / weight loss.

I don’t think I’m alone in saying this, either. When I started keto I was interested in control or reversal of metabolic disease, but I was also pretty intense about weight loss. The longer I do this, the less I care about the weight. I’m seeing a drop on the scale, but actually the other changes to my body are much more interesting and exciting! Now I want to do keto combined with some other things because I want to know what happens to my ‘numbers’ - a1c, blood glucose, lipid panel, liver panel and so on. I want to see even more improvement to my skin. I want to see what sort of Calcium score I wind up with after being on keto.

YMMV, but the benefits and, if I may say, entertainment factor of my body on keto has become my main focus.

(TJ Borden) #9

Of course they do, but adjusting your eating to meet a caloric “target” is the wrong way to approach it.

If you’ve come to learn that based on eating until satiated and not eating when you’re not hungry, great. If you ever find yourself hungry but don’t eat because you’ve already hit an arbitrary number you’ve set for yourself then you’re going to end up screwing up your metabolism.

(Sarah Slancauskas) #10

I also believe that calories matter in the long run. I watched an excellent YouTube video (from a Ketogenic Diet channel called High Intensity Fitness) about having too much fat and too many calories, especially if you have a lot of body fat to lose. I find the unlimited calories idea an odd one as your body has to burn what it takes in. If you don’t exercise and take in 5000 calories, even in fat, how does your body make use of this energy gong in? I think it can cause a problem for your liver to process… it is a view that is largely disregarded here but I stand by it personally. I’m also a believer in the necessity for exercise. I don’t think anything could convince me otherwise! But again, there are many people who state that this way of eating doesn’t require it. I can’t see that myself but that’s okay.

#11

The big difference for me is that I’m no longer hungry all the time. I’ve never been able to sustain other types of diets because eventually I feel deprived and go on a binge. And then binge some more. The longest I’ve lasted on other WOE is about 6 months. I’ve now been doing reduced calorie Keto for 17 months and lazy Keto for 3 years before that. At least for me, for losing weight, this WOE is more sustainable than any other I’ve tried over 5 decades of trying to lose weight. I’m now at my lowest weight in over 20 years (since before I had my stomach stapled 18 years ago).

Calories do still matter, but I’m eating fewer calories without a lot of effort, and without feeling deprived.

TMI: Before Keto, I almost always had to plunge the toilet after a BM, because it would get clogged up. I’ve not done that for years. To me, that’s proof that a lot less food is going through my system. I could have set a few size records. :frowning:

(Cindy) #12

Here’s my story… I used non-fat, super low calorie diets for more than 30 years, yo-yoed, kept my weight mostly in a healthy BMI range, but yo-yoed constantly within that range from tip-top to lowest bottom. Each decade, I had to lower my calories even more until I was eating 800-900 calories per day and gaining weight slowly but surely. I had given up on the idea of ever getting my slim figure back again. I started keto for Alzheimer’s and cancer prevention (the illness that killed my parents), and just closed my eyes and ate all those calories - no counting, just trying to eat all that fat, which was actually hard for me to figure out how to do at first. My goal was mental clarity, but the side-effect was weight loss! Rapid weight loss! The fastest I had ever lost weight! I lost 12 pounds in 3 months without counting anything. I did measure my ketosis every day to make sure I was in it, but I didn’t measure anything else.

After the 12 pounds, I stopped losing for a while. I had only 5 pounds left to lose, so at that point, I did start paying attention to my calories, I lowered my carbs a bit, raised my fat and made it a full 80% of my calories. I dropped those 5 pounds within 6 weeks doing this. Now I’m maintaining and I eat around 1200-1300 calories per day, which includes 3oz of meat, 2 oz of cheese, low-carb veggies, and all the rest of the calories are fats. Tons of fat! I’m maintaining my weight exactly where I want it, and now I don’t have to count anything any more. I’m just cruising along, doing what works. I’m a small Asian person, very short, slender build, so I can’t carry much weight very well and have to have lower calories than most people. But I’m never hungry on this diet, which I love.

#13

I think most people know that CICO matters, but if you say that then it’s ASSUMED that you’re brainwashed by the ol’ in vs out argument which obviously (people here at least) know better (I hope) and that a lot more goes into it like our friend/enemy insulin. Problem is while the “other” side is still completely brainwashed by taking barely educated guesses on what they THINK they burn in a day and slapping exact math on it, then you have the other extreme on our side that thinks calories are 100% useless and never matter in any context which is obviously just as bad. I’m with you on the higher protein as I lift heavy but just like caloric intake, it’s about what you need. On lifting days my protein is somewhere in the 150-200g range more or less which works out great. I can’t get away with that on my off days, my body lets me know! I started off years ago on Atkins so was bred to not count anything but carbs, worked great during the weight loss portion at first but when it came to building muscle it backfired. Had to make sure I was eating more, and this year I’ve made sure I’m getting in increased protein. Upped protein along with supplementing it in pre-workout and cassein at night has helped me put on just shy of 8lbs of muscle in the last 12 weeks, starting a new program now to see if I can beat that. Doubt it but the goal is fun.

(Cindy) #14

What is CICO? I’m sure I should know, but I can’t figure it out.

#15

Calories In vs Calories Out

(Cindy) #16

Ah! Thank you! Duh! Yes, I can attest to the fact that it doesn’t work!

(TJ Borden) #17

If you’re on a SAD, then you’re correct. Once you’re fat adapted on a ketogenic woe, I think you’d be hard pressed to eat 5000 calories. Satiety is going to kick in WAY before that point and you’d have to be eating significantly beyond satiety to even come close. Unless you’re satiety signal is being fucked with (which in my opinion can happen if you’re using a lot of artificial sweeteners).

(Alec) #18

Carole
Stressing about anything is counterproductive. The point of keto is to reduce insulin. You know what increases insulin? Carbs, protein and stress. Yep. So stop stressing, it is not helping!

I will also add that the key point here is that additional calories are important to give your body the fuel to heal itself. This is an important process in keto, and without enough calories you are compromising this process. The body needs enough calories to fix things.

And there is plenty of science to prove that the body will respond to calorie in reduction with a reduction in calories out (ref Dr Jason Fung Obesity Code).

So, get your fat in, eat, and give the process time.
Cheers
Alec

(Monica Piccirillo) #19

This! In my previous comment—I forgot to mention how satisfied I am all the time! No more hangry! 3 eggs and 4 oz beef patty breakfast, 6 ounce beef patty and cheese slice for lunch and 6 ounce beef patty for dinner with a veggie salad (about 8-12 ounces) mixed with sour cream capped off with dark chocolate for added fat :hugs:

(LeeAnn Brooks) #20

No one says it’s unlimited calories. We say eat to satiation. As fat is much more satiating, the vast majority of people will end up eating less. It may take some time for the body to heal and it may require more calories during this time, thus the hunger signals, and the recommendation that if you’re hungry, eat.

What we know doesn’t work is a calorie deficit to lose weight, at least not in the long term. You will lose weight for sure, but then your body requires less calories to maintain, so to lose more weight you must either reduce calories more or exercise more. And on and on. So even if you do make it to your goal weight, the calories it takes to maintain that weight are now drastically reduced because you have slowed down your metabolism.
Ultimately it’s an unsustainable situation, which is why the vast majority of people who lose weight on a CICO diet will gain it back. That’s why so many of us are here.

Also, so called health experts who preach CICO treatbit like it’s a scientific formula and thus its the individuals fault when the formula doesn’t get the expected results. When we know there so many things that can affect weight loss from stress to hormones to starving ourselves so our metabolism slows to a grinding halt.

I recall watching The Biggest Loser and a father/son team went several weeks without losing much at all. Jillian was fanatic that it was as simple as CICO. Yet here were two men who were monitored for every calorie the consumed and expelled by experts and they were all perplexed as to why the two weren’t losing. When they finally looked over their food logs to see where the “cheating” was happening, they discovered both men were way under eating. Mystery solved.
So it wasn’t a simple formula that could be used to predict outcomes. Even on people who eat normal, it can’t be applied due to the multitude of factors that can influence weight beyond CICO.