Anyone Else with Edema And gaining 8-10lbs in a single day while in ketosis?

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(Kirk Wolak) #1

Okay, here is the situation. I am down 120 lbs to my goal (190).
I typically eat MWF (1-2 meals on these days).

I have been enjoying bacon in the morning and a big steak in the evening or lunch.
Friday is a later meal because I do it with a neighbor after work and socialize.

I eat REALLY Clean as I have a TON of food allergies. I am 99% carnivore. I do almost no vegetables. I do take MCT Oil and put MCT powder in my coffee from time to time.

So, what is happening? After going REALLY Clean [PaleoMedicina: PKD Diet, salt, water, and meat, with 88% calories from fat, and NO cured/processed meats!], I am suddenly REACTING to Bacon like it is a stress on my system.

Eating bacon, I watched my CGM rocket up 30 points. I started gaining water weight from Bacon and Pepperoni and Sausage.

In fact, I tried to eat for 3 days in a row. The first day I gained 7lbs of water, and my edema started coming back. The second day another 4 lbs of water, and another 2lbs halfway into the third eating day. All water.

For reference, 10 days prior to this, I ate macadamia nuts and had a horrible reaction, it took days to resolve. Constipation, bloating. Well during this cycle, I was noticing my stomach was distended again. With pain and gas.

But I was only eating proteins and fats (albeit processed foods).

I think I might have triggered my body to notice these are NOT Great food choices by going with out them for 21 days.

But being up 13lbs in 2.5 days really panicked me. I went from BELOW my goal weight to over 200 lbs like it was NOTHING. And I was always in ketosis! (Measured by blood).

Since I am at my target weight, it’s not a big deal. But I realized a few things:

  1. The ADF was HIDING this effect of the food on me. It only shows up when I eat multiple days in a row. If I fast after eating days, I don’t get (net), and then the weekend gives me a 72hr fast, and I clear it all [it appears]
  2. The PKD program made me “notice” that these things are affecting me worse than I ever thought. We kinda know bacon is not the best choice. And eating 2lbs is probably even worse. I eat at least 1 lb on an eating day, normally.
  3. The attempt to fast less, leading to a massive swing in weight like this scares the crap out of me. I certainly don’t want to be stuck eating this way (MWF) forever. But I can always have an exception and do an extended fast.

To that end, I am eating today (Tuesday) I will fast tomorrow, eat Thursday/Friday.
I will fast Saturday/Sunday. I will fast longer if I have to, in order to clean things up.

My edema started going down over the weekend as I added fasting. TO ME, that means it is clearly something I am eating. I have cut out the offending foods, and have NOT been gaining weight, despite eating. (Not losing either, but one hill to die on per day, please).

Anyone experienced with ANYTHING Like this???

THESE are the types of things that broke my spirit trying to do Atkins. (I never knew I was allergic to Eggs and Cheese. So imagine my surprise when I get into ketosis and gain weight!). I never knew it was water weight/edema and basic inflammation. Now I do.

So, the last 2 days I have eaten SEARED SALMON (Seared on the outside, sushi on the inside). And have been weight stable. Edema is down from the weekend fasting.

Again, I am curious if anyone else gets these types of results. I watch my neighbors and friends lap up everything and crush it. Here I am at GOAL, and I can’t eat every day! LOL.

FWIW, I will get there. After losing 120lbs, I aint going back. And if that means spending 3 months to add ONE more eating day per week. Then 3 months it is!
There will be no stopping me.

Just curious if there are others, and if I can accelerate the process by learning from others… Or if I am stuck blazing a new trail for others to follow…

Keto and physical appearance
(Full Metal KETO AF) #2

I’m curious because you say you were below your goal weight yet you’re only eating three days a week and it sounds like you eat a lot of food on those days maybe. Are you going for skin autophagy or what is behind your all the time fasting schedule?

:cowboy_hat_face:

(Kirk Wolak) #3

I used autophagy and don’t really have excess skin.

But I can’t stop fasting. When I do, I start retaining too much water, my glucose numbers suck, etc.

So I put it off for a couple of weeks, and am trying again. Hence the post trying to find out if someone else has had this problem. I eat the same foods I’ve always eaten, but eating every day (or 3-4 days in a row) is a disaster. Trying to cycle through different foods now (avoiding bacon, etc). [A good friend said 1-2lbs of bacon AND a steak is probably too much for my petite 190 frame. LOL]

But knowing my body, it is MORE likely WHAT I am eating over the kilograms…
So I will cycle and suffer a bit, and PRAY that someone throws me a lifeline that makes sense.

#4

Any chance you’re seeing an effect from the amount of sodium in the bacon? I’ll assume you’re drinking extra water, else it would be hard to gain the water weight. Are you changing the amount of extra salt to match the amount in the food, or adding in any potassium to balance it out?

(Boston_guy) #5

Are you getting potassium? Lite Salt is a good source if you’re not getting it from food.

I got http://chrismasterjohnphd.com/cheatsheet yesterday and it mentions edema a few times-

"The effects of excess sodium and chloride are best seen as resulting from too much sodium and chloride relative to potassium. A high salt-to-potassium ratio increases blood pressure and may also increase extracellular fluid in general, contributing to edema (swelling). "

'Risk Factors for Potassium Deficiency: The Institute of Medicine recommended in 2005 that
Americans consume 4.7 grams of potassium per day to lower the risk of kidney stones and high blood pressure, and this will be revised in 2018. Some authors have estimated that
preagricultural diets contained over 12 grams of potassium per day. I consider 4.7 grams a
reasonable target for a minimum. However, less than two percent of Americans meet this goal. I therefore consider it reasonable to say that inadequate potassium resulting from poor food selection is almost universal.
The primary dietary risk factors are a low intake of fruits and vegetables…"

(Kirk Wolak) #6

Well, I just made 100 of my own Potassium Citrate 1.2g capsules (24% of the RDA/4.7g), and started taking 2 in the AM and 2 in the PM.

So far, my BP has dropped nicely, and my weight dropped 3lbs [I got this tip 2 days ago from someone else, without the science reference, and the upper total]

So, I could have been over salting, under potassium. (I use, and LOVE NoSalt, I season with it just like salt, WITH salt too).

Thank you! I will update this thread. But taking a FULL day supply of Potassium (which even dr. fung scared me away from) has lowered my BP to 110/73. My systolic was 135s before.

Funny, I still had leg cramps this morning. Maybe I need to balance the magnesium as well. But it is good to know I can go 8grams if I need it.

(Kirk Wolak) #7

Carol, great question, read my response to @dub
Probably really low on potassium.
I drink based on thirst. I notice that to retain water, I stop peeing.
And gradually get thirstier, that’s a sign. It would also make sense that my body is making me drink more just PRAYING to get some potassium by accident :slight_smile:

Thank you, this might have been the issue. I will update this posting so others have clues in case it happens to them…

(Todd Allen) #8

Salmon is fairly rich in potassium, especially compared to other animal based foods. Yogurt or kefir might also be carnivore compatible options. I eat a fair amount of leafy greens, avocados, nuts and seeds and other keto compatible higher potassium foods and I had water retention trouble in my feet in ankles until I replaced about 1/3 of my daily salt with lite salt.

#9

Standard disclaimer:
I am not a doctor. Go careful on potassium supplementation because it can cause water to rush into your gut and/or can cause fluctuations in blood pressure and/or arrhythmias if not monitored carefully.

#10

I finally bougt that too. He had a half-off sale for Memorial Day. I do disagree with a few things in it (is there ever a source I agree with all the time?) For example he stated that potassium can cause an insulin response, but every study on the subject I can find says that insulin is used to treat potassium overload, not the converse. So… grain of salt on that point of his. :grin:

(Boston_guy) #11

Sounds like you’re on the right track, that’s awesome! I should look into it too… can’t get all my potassium from coffee and lite salt :slight_smile:

I am not a doctor, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_citrate says it contains 38.28% potassium by mass. 4 * 1.2 * .3828 = 1.837 g, so you may want to titrate up slowly.

(Kirk Wolak) #12

Wow, I forgot to look it up. Now I feel even more safe! 0.45g per tablet.
I am re-labeling now. Thanks for the heads up!

(Boston_guy) #13

Learned a couple things about Potassium–

Cream of Tartar is full of it. 1tbsp = 1485mg. https://www.eatthismuch.com/food/nutrition/cream-of-tartar,4276/ … taking too much has landed people in the hospital. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3570668/

The dose really does make the poison:

“In the United States, hyperkalemia is induced by lethal injection in capital punishment cases. Potassium chloride is the last of the three drugs administered and actually causes death. Injecting potassium chloride into the heart muscle disrupts the signal that causes the heart to beat. This same amount of potassium chloride would do no harm if taken orally and not injected directly into the blood.” - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperkalemia